Talk:Desert Hot Springs, California

miscengenate
I changed the reference to "miscengenate" population to "multiracial." That seems to me a bit less controversial and less likely to cause hurt feelings. And "miscengenate" was spelled wrong, to boot. - Matt Wood

clean water supply
In several national tap water tests, Desert Hot Springs Cal. ranks in the top 10 in the country. It's very clean, naturally filtered and came from an underground geothermal spring. The town has five hotel resorts built on hot springs and tourists from around the world come by to rejuvenate in them. The town struggled with socio-economic problems and city council rivalries, but a rapid-growing population and new homes by the hundreds every year made Desert Hot Springs one of California's fastest growing cities. + Mike D 26 04:48, 28 October 2006 (UTC) 12:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

"Sunset_in_the_Valley"
"Sunset_in_the_Valley": 2007 movie.

hopiakuta 05:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

< http://reference.com/browse/wiki/Desert_Hot_Springs%2C_California >;

< http://reference.com/browse/wiki/Desert_Hot_Springs >.

hopiakuta ; &lt;nowiki&gt; { &#91;&#91; %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ; &lt;/nowiki&gt;]] 23:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

"miscegenate"; "miscegenation".
The comment of

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Desert_Hot_Springs%2C_California&diff=89391861&oldid=87462303 >

uses the word

"miscengenate",

thrice.

I have not located the original edit{s} that had inspired this message.

If you check

< http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?miscegenation >,

you would learn that the spelling is:

"miscegenate";

"miscegenation".

Thank You.

&#91;&#91; hopiakuta &#124; &#91;&#91; &#91;&#91;%c2%a1]] &#91;&#91;%c2%bf]] &#91;&#91; %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] -]] 17:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

So, no Willie Winston,  Willy Winston,  miscegenate,  miscegenation; but, there are  Willie_Wilson,  Willy_Wilson.


 * < http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADesert_Hot_Springs%2C_California&action=historysubmit&diff=321161247&oldid=93845465 >;


 * < http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Desert_Hot_Springs,_California&diff=93845465&oldid=89391861 >;


 * < http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Desert_Hot_Springs,_California&diff=80690728&oldid=80456352 >.

hopiakuta Please do   sign  your  communiqu%c3%a9 .%7e%7eThank You, DonFphrnqTaub Persina. 15:00, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Desert Hot Springs' great-tasting water...
Seems like every time I keep adding the blurb about the City's award-winning(and best-tasting!) municipal water, somebody on one of the DHS city commissions keeps repeatedly DELETING it!...apparently, this "commissioner" is determined to keep the focus soley on the spas that originally made the city famous...

It's not just the spas, folks, IT'S THE WATER!!!...

Please, to whomever keeps deleting this fact, stop playing "community censor" and admit it:your water is the best-tasting in the world and add this fact to the DHS page...

Thanks,Baldwin91006 02:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If you want to keep something like that in there, make sure it is well-written, so it does not look like cruft. Find references and citations for these claims so it looks verifiable and add those. And then it should be ok.--Filll 11:31, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not a DHS commissioner. And the last time I was there, the water tasted terrible.  This is WP:OR, of course, but it means I won't accept the statement without a source.  &mdash; Arthur Rubin |  (talk) 19:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I have paid numerous visits to the DHS area throughout the years and have enjoyed their water, and trust me:it's good!;no wonder it deserved all those ribbons from Berkeley Springs(WV)...

For someone to keep denying that true reason for DHS' existence by demanding a LITERARY source for the Mission Springs Water District is ridiculous;most DHS residents(and city officials) would back up Baldwin's persistence in adding the fact to this page...

Please, if someone out there can add the website for the Mission Springs Water District(then reinstate what Baldwin's been saying all along) to the page, then the "feud" can stop once and for all.

Thanks,Michaela92399 01:40, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Local issues
Desert Hot Springs has struggled with high crime, and carried on an unfavorable distinction as the "crime capital of Riverside county". For over 20 years according to FBI crime statistics, DHS had a large number of burglaries, robberies, vandalism, arson reports and arrests for misdemeanors per capita for a city its' size (25,000 residents). It's sad but honestly, the city has to find ways to drop the crime rate and a high percentage of low-income youths (under age 21) most gullible to commit petty crimes, DHS must address the issue to accomodate positive recreational opportunities for the city's teen and young adult (20s range) population. For example, there's a famous dirt bike track in Hacienda park that draws in dirt bikers from across the valley and nation (it is somewhat nationally famous). + 71.102.10.169 (talk) 15:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

In the last decade, Desert Hot Springs is ranked the WORST place to live in California on 5 issues: 1. Crime incidence rates (higher ratio per city population than even Compton, Los Angeles and also New York City), 2. Poverty/Low-income percentages (including food stamps, welfare, disability, section 8 housing and medicare recipients), 3. High unemployment and underemployment issues, 4. Less high school grads with lower college degree holders in city population, and 5. Drug trafficking and production (Google search the number of news articles about DHS' thriving medical marijuana industry). Desert Hot Springs in the top 5/6 worst cities in CA competing with San Bernardino, Oakland, Stockton, Yuba City and El Centro next to the Mexican border. Adinneli (talk) 23:41, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

True dat Hamburgersforever1432 (talk) 02:46, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

There has been some lockdown the past 3 years or so. Hamburgersforever1432 (talk) 02:46, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

More on FBI Crime Statistics
Crime is indeed a problem in Desert Hot Springs, since California has been dumping parolees into Desert Hot Springs at a rate terrifying to its residents.

Crime in DHS is increasing, and violent crimes are up by 38 over the same period last year. (See The Desert Sun • September 17, 2009 Violent crime up: DHS)

Hopefully DHS's troubled history will become just that. It's no certain thing at the moment.

Pingnak (talk) 06:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Crime is decreasing. We we're the only city of two im Riverside County with dropping crime rates in 2015. In 2016, it dropped around 18%. Mikeyb25 (talk) 14:56, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

== Palm Springs is a desert city in Riverside County, California, approximately 111 miles (177 km) east of Los Angeles and 136 miles (225 km) northeast of San Diego. == To what extent is this accurate here, as well?


 * Palm_Canyon_Drive
 * highway_111
 * California_State_Route_111
 * California_highway_111
 * Indian Avenue & Indian Canyon Drive
 * downtown Calexico, California
 * Mexicali
 * Algodones
 * Cuando Way
 * Two Bunch Palms Trail
 * Pierson Boulevard
 * Palm Drive
 * Miracle Hill

hopiakuta  Please  do   sign  your  communiqu%c3%a9 .%7e%7eThank You,  DonFphrnqTaub Persina. 14:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Kingdom of the Dolls on-line museum -- WP:ELNO
I am one of the editors who deleted the Kingdom of the Dolls - Online Virtual Museum (DHS Historical Website) as an EL. Unfortunately, sock-puppet editors persisted in re-instating the EL. The reasons for the EL deletion are simple and clear. The building in which the museum was once housed is gone. As such it is no longer a DHS "landmark" (if ever) and, per WP:ELNO guidance, not appropriate as a link.--S. Rich (talk) 02:35, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Right there with you. Has nothing to do whatsover with the history of DHS. Call on me if you need backup. -- Man way  05:24, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Never heard of the place, either. Interesting, though. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 21:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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Marijuana trade
John from Idegon took issue with edit 748047212 for reasons which I am unclear about, apparently objecting to the two sources (the BBC and the LA Times) and thinking that it should be merged into an existing section rather than standing alone, despite the existence of the sections "Boutique hotels and spas" and "Modernist architecture". Possibly some new section with a name like "commerce" needs to be created? Card Zero (talk) 14:42, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to the first part being added to the history section. My objection is to the seperate section and to using the single source to attribute an "economic boom". It's too soon to make any statements on the economic impact. We're supposed to take a long view here. John from Idegon (talk) 18:10, 14 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Is Mike Tyson starting his cannabis tourist ranch hotel in Desert Hot Springs? I think so, he should be considered a local resident too. 2605:E000:100D:C571:8921:AB9A:1584:4730 (talk) 22:05, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Provide sources and explain why in terms of Wikipedia policies and guidelines please. John from Idegon (talk) 22:55, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

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PSUSD
Its a School District Hamburgersforever1432 (talk) 02:47, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

hildamgray.com link and verification of statements about Hilda Gray
The [edit by IAbot] to select an archive link for hildamgray.com, as the domain was usurped around the end of 2012.

A good one is the wayback archive dated 2013-10-12.

The article supports Hilda Gray having homesteaded in this area prior to Cabot, but does not clearly indicate her homestead was the first in the area.

It also states that she "established" the homestead in 1909, not in 1908 as stated in the WP article.

The city hosts this one-page history credited to Desert Hot Springs Historical Society, claiming Hilda Gray was in fact the first person to live there. Other sites do support that she was the first person to live there, but verification is needed to establish that those were not based on this WP article.

(I plan on making the relevant changes but am saving these notes for now. If you have some observations to contribute, please add them.) Fabrickator (talk) 18:15, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Netherzone (talk) 19:10, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

early settlers
"Desert Hot Springs (Images of America series)", content credited to the Desert Hot Springs Historical Society, includes the following entries in its chronology:


 * 1908: Jack Riley, first homesteader to establish claim in Desert Hot Springs
 * 1912: Ethel Rouse establishes first school (near Seven Palms)
 * 1913: Cabot Yerxa arrives with Bob Carr to establish homestead on Miracle Hill

Elsewhere, it states: "By 1912, Hilda M. Gray was living on a homestead ..." in the area.

The archived hildamgray.com web site states that in 1909, Gray established her first homestead in the area, and that Cabot acknowledged that she had been living there before he got there.

At first glance, these bits of information seem to conflict with the following statements in 22 November 2019 revision:


 * Gray was the first homesteader in the area of the city of Desert Hot Springs.
 * Gray staked her claim in 1908.

This archived page from DHS Historical Society claims Gray was the first person "to actually live" in the area, while Jack Riley was reportedly "the first white man to set foot" there. It also states that Gray moved to Arcadia after homestead for 4 years (but the homestead deed generally required 5 years). OTOH, if she actually arrived (presuming she promptly filed for homesteading) in 1909, then 4 years would have been up when Cabot arrived.

This source: [Hidden Waters Spas of Desert Hot Springs] dates Gray as having discovered water in the area in 1909.

Setting this aside for the moment. Fabrickator (talk) 20:42, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Fabrickator (talk) 20:42, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

revert of claim about 1868
Pending further investigation, I've reverted the edit that was based on the following paragraph from the cited San Diego Tribune story:

A government survey party recorded mineral water springs in 1868 in what is now the city of Desert Hot Springs. A source of drinking water for indigenous peoples of centuries past, the spring was located at the foot of the two “bunches of palms,” now the site of the exclusive Two Bunch Palms Resort and Spa.

I'm quite skeptical about this claim. I have been unable to find any other reports that confirm the above paragraph, while at the same time, it seems to be inconsistent with other reports about the discovery of the springs in Desert Hot Springs. This provides some reason to suspect that the newspaper story may not have been that well-researched. Fabrickator (talk) 04:45, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Enough time has passed to check out the verifiable WP:V, reliable source WP:RS – The San Diego Union Tribune (major newspaper for San Diego). The article clearly states that the Desert Hot Springs mineral springs were first recorded by a government survey party in 1868. I will be re-adding this information, and the citation that was deleted to the article. Netherzone (talk) 20:40, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I apologize for the delay in posting any update on this. As I indicated, I had identified inconsistencies, and was hoping to find something which would clear things up.  With regard to a government survey party, I have the following:


 * San Diego Union-Tribune (2012): "a government survey party recorded mineral water springs in 1868"
 * New York Times (1993): "... a United States Army Camel Corps survey team came upon [the area] in 1907. The team's members saw two adjacent groves of palm trees on a rising hill, and called the area 'Two Bunches of Palms.' When the survey map was published, the land became "Two Bunch Palms."
 * Orange Coast Magazine (1985): "Two Bunch Palms was named by a contingent of U.S. Army Camel Corps who spotted two groups of palms flourishing in the hot springs' water on a map and survey expedition back in 1907."


 * The reality is each of these sources is flawed, and quite dubious as a reliable source. For one thing, the reliability of such publications is based on an expectation that they are reporting on contemporaneous stories.  If that's not the case, if they're just reprinting information from some other source, then what do we know about the reliability of that source?  Even worse, each of these is published as part of an advertising section or otherwise to promote advertisers related to the subject.  These advertising sections exist to please the advertisers, and thus they are not subject to the same editorial oversight as the rest of the paper.  They may not be lying, but they aren't verifying either.  If an advertiser offers the writer what sounds like a good story, the writer will probably thank them for the suggestion and try to work it into the copy, without further verification.
 * The bottom line is that we have these factual discrepancies, and no reason to place much faith in any of these stories. Fabrickator (talk) 07:30, 9 April 2020 (UTC)


 * You seem to feel very strongly about the fact that the San Diego Union Tribune and other sources are less credible than your own personal opinion. There are significantly more pressing issues for me to deal with at this time. Netherzone (talk) 22:44, 9 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The general principle is we want to be very careful that we only publish accurate (a.k.a. verifiable) information in Wikipedia. Otherwise, statements published as fact in Wikipedia get picked up and passed around, and later on, it becomes considerably more difficult to figure out (i.e. from sources published later) whether these other sources are based on actually accurate information or they have simply re-published what's in Wikipedia.  (I'm a little perplexed ... it seems that you want to suggest that my personal opinion that "we're not sure" is unreasonable, when we have at least two  sources, and you want to accept that one of those is accurate, based on  personal opinion, that the other one is inaccurate.)
 * I will just go ahead and remove the disputed content for now, it can always be re-introduced when it's apparent that we have a credible source of information, or if we can't reach agreement on that, we can attempt some form of dispute resolution. Fabrickator (talk) 23:27, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

There is a half-page article about Two Bunch Palms in Jane Davies Gunther's "Riverside County, California, Place Names" (1984). I would be happy to scan and email it to anyone that wants to read it. Just send me your email address. OvertAnalyzer (talk) 00:45, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * A privately published book, published by a local real estate agent, is extremely dubious as a reliable source. Got the publisher from a google search on the title (it's on Amazon), Google search of the publisher name yields no hits on any company, and first hits are a real estate agent in this community. John from Idegon (talk) 00:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This is not a privately published book. It is a 634 page respected reference work, Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 84-72920 (84072920), that was written by a local historian.  She spent many years researching the book, and was given the Author of the Year Award by the local historical society.  As far as I know, she was never a real estate agent.OvertAnalyzer (talk) 01:25, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * When you read what I wrote and respond to my arguments instead of whatever you are responding to, I'll reply. Being in the LOC doesn't in any way speak to reliability, as every book published in the US is in the LOC. Your opinion that it is a respected work alone is irrelevant as is mine. My arguments were to a guideline (WP:RS) and not based on my opinion. Sorry you misunderstood. Explain please how the book meets our standards. John from Idegon (talk) 02:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * In the opening statement of your response to me you said, "A privately published book, published by a local real estate agent, is extremely dubious." Since that was you first point, I believed it to be your primary point.  That is what I responded to. I now think you probably meant "self-published".  In that case I understand your concern. -Just to make sure we are on the same page, exactly what did you search for when you did your Google search? -Regarding the original reason for this talk section, I was not taking a position on the original revert that was made.  I only intended to offer some additional perspective on the matter, and leave it to others to decide if it was helpful. -Regarding my statement that Gunther's book was a "respected reference work", that is not just my opinion. This is what the Riverside Public Library has to say: (Riverside Public Library)
 * Gunther, Jane Davies Riverside County, California, Place Names: Their Origins and Their Stories Riverside: Rubidoux Printing Company, 1984. (Loc Hist 979.497 GUN) This is the finest local history reference source ever compiled on Riverside County, both in terms of its completeness and accuracy. In seeking to answer the 'who, 'why,' 'when,' and 'where' of the County's geographic names, the author spent over a decade doing meticulous, creative research. Both primary and secondary sources were consulted and, in many cases, oral history sources were developed to corroborate or expand upon documentary materials. The bulk of this work consists of short historical accounts of place names in an alphabetical arrangement. The entries give clear citations to the sources listed in the back of the volume. Copious 'see' and 'see also' references are provided. The author does not force her evidence, but provides alternative explanations and documentation where this seems warranted. Besides document and map bibliographies, there is a thorough personal name index at the back of the volume.
 * OvertAnalyzer (talk) 16:17, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * This should be easy. Quoting from above:
 * "The entries give clear citations to the sources listed in the back of the volume."
 * Just provide the source that the author has relied on for this specific claim. Fabrickator (talk) 17:30, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * So if you had just done as I asked, and argued from policy not emotion you'd have seen: self published books are seldom reliable. Reject use of this source that clearly, without even cracking the cover, fails WP:RS. Glad some people have time on their hands. John from Idegon (talk) 13:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If you re-read my response, without injecting emotion, that is how I meant it. Sorry if you took it differently. Emotional and defensive responses just aren't my thing.  I can't say I would change anything in my response, because I saw them just as some facts I was laying out (although now I see they may be irrelevant in context of (WP:RS)). Before I logged on this morning I was already planning on thanking you for helping me better understand the issues of self-published books. So ... Thank you. OvertAnalyzer (talk) 15:01, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I feel that the fact that this book was self-published is a weak reason to reject it. There are cases where self-published works may be acceptable, and cases where a non-self-published work would be rejected.  We should not be constrained to rely on such narrow reasons, and instead should consider the totality of the evidence and circumstances.  We would not accept the validity of Aesop's Fables based on its publication by a recognized publisher.  One particular problem with this work is that it's a compendium.  Arguably, at least, it's a work that may involve limited in-depth knowledge across many areas.  (I am not sure why the source for the claim in this book has not been provided, that would presumably make this issue irrelevant.  Of course, it seems like a much better source would be the actual record by the surveyors involved.  Where is that?) Fabrickator (talk) 17:55, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It appears my good intentions, to help with an additional source, went in a very different direction than I expected.  I wasn’t arguing for or against the original edit that was reverted.  Gunther’s area of expertise is “Local History”, which admittedly she gained through the decade’s long experience of researching and writing her book.  (Previously she had been an editor for other unrelated scientific works.) The sources Gunther cites in her half-page article are listed here. OvertAnalyzer (talk) 21:15, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Chance, James Smeaton, “California Desert Trails”. Houghton Mifflin Co., Boston and New York (1919)
 * “Desert Magazine”, May, 1939
 * Riverside County Road Department, Bk 46, p 27, 36, 62; “Henry Washington 1855 survey notes”, and “1902 Jacob W Kaerth survey notes”.