Talk:Deuce (musician)

The Aron EP and the Fight to Unite EP are fan-made

 * The Aron EP never existed Deuce simply uploaded songs to a website to gain exposure, and the songs were downloaded by fans. Metadata was changed.
 * The Fight to Unite EP was created by JR "NineLives" Heller and isn't an official release by Deuce himself.

Fair Enough
The reason I added these in was because they where up for download on the official fan-page (which is now down for some reason i am not aware of) and i wasnt aware of that information. SilentDan297 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Release Edits
Album information for The Two Thousand Eight EP & The "Call Me Big Deuce" EP should not be featured on a page designed for Deuce information, in the same way the album information is not on the page. These two release should both have their own designated Wikipedia pages, especially The Two Thousand Eight EP as it is Deuce's first official solo release. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ToddAlexanderWilliamson (talk • contribs) 06:28, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

New album/EP?
I have checked his statuses and I cannot find anything that states he is making an album, only that he is still touring. Can someone find anything on the subject? otherwise these mentioning's will have to be removed from the page until an actual announcement is made that can be cited SilentDan297 19:51, 27 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SilentDan297 (talk • contribs)

Genre
The genre keeps changing! People keep adding genre's that are not related to this artist, they should be sourced or discussed and should NOT be changed by other means. - 10:27, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I think there should be more genres in the artists infobox, he is more than just a Rapcore artist, he has incorporated hip-hop as well, should there be at least one or two more genres added in order to sum up the rest of the artists works? Rapcore just doesn't hit me as his main/only genre. - 23:39, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Template: Infobox musical artist says to generalize the genre in the infobox, it is not for multiple unreferenced subgenres. I think it should either say "rap-rock" or "rapcore" there is no real reason to include anything else. Rapcore is a mix of hip hop and punk, but it my opinion he is closer to rap-rock or rap metal, he is not significantly known for being a punk artist.  STATic  message me!  01:21, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * That's why I asked if there should only be one or two more however I do realize that they should be referenced genres in order to support them, and I agree with rap-rock as the genre to generalize Deuce until we find sources to cite him otherwise, I will also put up a notice to say that there needs to be a discussion before changing the genres. - 10:41, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Age
Aron's age on the wiki page is false backed by a false statement said by Deuce himself. He has claimed to be 24 several times on twitter and on live streams. If this is correct he would have been 16 in 2005. Many places say he was born in 1983 making him 30. Should it remain 24 on here (which I'm pretty sure he's not) or should it be made 30? Cavevoid (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:00, 15 July 2013 (EST)


 * I also find it hard to believe he's 24. 90.213.119.98 (talk) 00:08, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I think due to the situation there should be no age at all until there is a correct and reliable source that states his correct age and/or birth year, that way people wont get confused that his age keeps changing every so often due to this argument and will stop when it is properly resolved. - 19:46, 15 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Considering I doubt he was under 18 when Hollywood Undead was founded, and a google search of "Deuce birthday" turns up the 1983 date. Along with this and this. But unless we get a undeniable reliable source for a birthday, we probably should not include it. Unless we should just use the age 24 date, since there are documented tweets where he says his birthday to be the other date.  STATic   message me!  19:58, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

To be safe I think his age should be removed completely until there's solid evidence he's 24, or more likely 30. 90.208.173.103 (talk) 16:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

On Deuces official Facebook page on his basic info, it states that it was founded (or rather he was born) on March 2, 1983. (As seen here) Since this is Deuces own page this could be a reliable source, that is my opinion anyway, it also denies the past false statements he made about him being born at an earlier date, making him 30 now rather than the unlikely 24. Should this be input or left alone? - 23:28, 14 January 2014 (UTC)


 * It is his official page, so go ahead and add it it looks just fine. Finally the fiasco is over.  STATic  message me!  23:33, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Own Discography Page
Deuce's discography section is now massive and I think he should have his own Discography page because of this, what does everybody else think? - 17:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Band members section
I have removed Deuce from this section since this page is all about this artist, he is a solo artist with an eponymous band aiding him. an examples of this is Bon Jovi, he is a solo artist who has a band assisting him, but all the albums and other works are under his name, there is a list of members that he has worked with but he is still the main artists. - 22:27, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * However, the difference is that the band does not have a separate article, so this article is combination of the two, so it makes perfect sense to have him listed there. Elsewise it makes it seem as if he is not in the group/band, since the section specifies the members of the band Same way that Daughtry and Bon Jovi are named after their lead singer. If neither of the bands had articles they would be merged with the lead artists in the same way.  STATic  message me!  22:36, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * But Deuce has a discography before the rest of the band was included, in fact all his works before the Nine Lives album did not include the band, and if he became a former member, the band would not exist either, they cant replace Deuce with another singer and just give him the same name, the difference between Deuce and the likes of Daughtry and Bon Jovi is that the band revolves around him and he had a career before his eponymous band, where as Daughtry and Bon Jovi started as a band with the two having front-men lead them, hence their bands being named after them. A better example would be Ozzy Osbourne, he is a solo artist with a band to aid him in his live performances and studio work, however the line up has changed so many times, the most recent members dating back as far as 2003, the rest are more recent than that (2004, 2009 and 2012) but he is the solo artist, there is no Ozzy Osbourne music without Ozzy himself, if there is no Ozzy, there is no Ozzy Osbourne music, same principle is here, if there is no Deuce, there is no Deuce music, no matter what band supported them beforehand. - 22:54, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Makes sense, actually for the record Daughtry was a solo artist first, his whole first album was recorded before the band formed, but he toured with them afterwards and has recorded with them since. Maybe instead the section should be titled "supporting members" or "band members" or something to that degree.  STATic  message me!  01:14, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I believe something along those lines would make sense, and apologies about Daughtry, I'm not very well educated about that band so was unaware. What would you recommend most highly to name the members section as most? Its current name seems fine to me personally since it has a description describing the band's role but is that name best fitting? - 16:22, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh yes definitely, the way you adjusted it looks perfect to me for a case like this.  STATic  message me!  16:59, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Other songs
The "Other songs" section was removed, possibly due to no sources being cited for them, but the three songs "Far Away", "Fallen Stone", and "Dreams" are old songs he did on his old "broadjam" profile, as referenced in the Musical beginnings (2001–2005) section, and as for the Nine Lives (Undead remix), this is a remix he made himself and has even played it at live shows as an introduction to his live shows, he even admitted to creating this in an interview (link) of which he confirmed having on his facebook page (link), so I will re-add these songs with the added references to back them up and prove notability. - 22:48, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * That is part of it, but also because random other leaked/free songs are just not notable enough to be mentioned in a encylopedia discography. I mean we do not have to list every single song he ever recorded, you will not see that done in any Featured List discography. I know that he does not even have a separate discography yet (which would be proper after, I would say his second album, to answer your question in a above section), but random other leaked/free songs do not need to be mentioned at all. Singles, featured singles and guest appearances is all is really needed when it comes to songs in a discography. I am also concerned about this "Other released songs" section, again those are just not notable trivial songs, that should also be removed.  STATic  message me!  23:30, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I do suppose they should be released on a proper EP before mentioned, I swear the other 3 it least have been released on an EP beforehand but I cannot seem to find it any more. But the "Nine Lives" song is cover, should that not be still worth mentioning? - 04:49, 28 October 2013 (UTC)


 * If they were included on an EP, it would be the EP that would be mentioned, not the singular songs. I am not sure, in all discographies I have seen they do not mention covers, but I just recently decided to dip my feet more into the rock side of Wikipedia. Is there any Featured lists or at least B-class discographies for bands that include covers? But in the end since it is just a single song a better place for it would be in the prose, rather than the discography.  STATic  message me!  05:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, makes sense to me. - 05:30, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Order of Discography
I have re-arranged the discography several times into the following:

5 - Discography

5.1 - With Hollywood Undead (contained the main works made with the group such as Swan Songs and it's EP's since Deuce is no longer a member)

5.2 - Solo (contained all the works he has done in his entire solo career before and after the departure from Hollywood Undead)

5.3 - Collaborations ((contained all of the collaborated songs and music videos since these are not a part of his works, merely contributed)

Despite this it keeps being reordered so as only a link to Hollywood Undead’s discography is there (causing confusion since Deuce is no longer a member) and the collaborations are merged with Deuce's solo career, the singles and music videos appear as if they are his but worked with other artists to make them, they are not his work, they should be kept separate.

The order of the Solo works doesn’t really matter as long as they are linked to the Discography Infobox, I just drew to the conclusion that they should be in the same order since it is listed that way in the infobox.

I am confused to as why this keeps being reverted, it is logical and clear to what works Deuce has created in which projects, please explain. - 13:43, 11 November 2013 (UTC)


 * As I explained, the order you made it in was incredibly random, if you see any discography such as Eminem discography (example since it is a WP:Featured List), or basically any other discography, the order is Albums, EPs, Mixtapes, Lead Singles, Featured Singles, Other collaborations, Music videos. This is always the order they are done in. You can view any discography to see this. On to the other issue, see an example such as Justin Timberlake discography, their discographies are for their SOLO work, you will never find a list or table of albums/projects that they did while they were a member of a group. The hatnote at the top, as I explained is more than enough.  STATic  message me!  15:46, 11 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I still believe that the Holywood Undead part needs to be explained, since Deuce is no longer a member of the band their most recent works do not include Deuce, so as part of his discography I still believe that the works of the band that included Deuce should be mentioned, the hatnote just links to their discography, as if stating that he is still a member and all of their discography includes Deuce. I have seen how the discography for the featured artist parts of his discography can be included but the works with Hollywood Undead should be pointed out. - 12:21, 12 November 2013 (UTC)


 * An example I just realized is Ronnie Radke's discography section, it includes the major releases with his primary band Falling in Reverse and the major works he did whilst he was still in the band Escape the Fate. His collaboration's is also under a separate title however the discography page here is more clear now on that point. - 16:52, 12 November 2013 (UTC)


 * So you agree that it looks good now, or is there anything else you would like to see changed? Maybe we could include works with Hollywood Undead but I would say to include the major works of the band (Swan Songs and the live album) underneath his studio album, but all the EPs and remix albums can be found in the Hollywood Undead discography. Also just created Template: Deuce, remember it to add it to the article if you ever create a article about something related to him.  STATic  message me!  17:50, 12 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I have come to terms with the Solo Discography, but I personally believe that his works with Hollywood Undead should remain separate since they are not are not part of his solo work, but with the band which he contributed to. - 22:02, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Musical style and lyrical themes
I believe that Deuce should have his own section due to his blend of genres and range of lyrical style. He has also been compared massively to Hollywood Undeads Swan Songs album. I have made a draft of the section but dont want to publish it since it might be biased to some degree and I'd rather avoid any arguments.

Deuce uses a mixture of rap rock and hip hop music with elements of metal music, a lot like his former band project Hollywood Undead and has been compared to such, along with the early works of Eminem, particularly from his works off the début album Nine Lives. Deuces lyrics, a lot like Hollywood Undeads début album Swan Songs, tends to be a mixture of serious then sexual themes, often using explicit language, however has been negatively criticized due to choice of wording and being full of himself, often calling the lyrics awful on most songs, however some claim the songs to be catchy and cleverly done.
 * ---Start---

Deuces album Nine Lives has often been seen as a successor to the Swan Songs album by his fans and in some reviews and even claimed in multiple interviews himself that the album is, claiming in an interview with YouTube personality Bryan Stars "...I wrote and produced all the songs..." off the Swan Songs album and stated that "...The good music is over here now...".
 * ---End---

Any feedback would be great, or if you disagree with having this section entirely then I simply wont publish. - 00:27, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


 * There are a few minor copy edits that need to be made, but I shall do that once it is added. On that note, I see no bias and it looks good. The only two issues I see is; 1) Whatever is cited to the Sputnikmusic review should be removed, as the review is from a user rather then the staff. 2) I am not seeing all the relevancy in the YouTube interview, the quote does not really add much, but it might just be the way it is worded. In the future, when doing something like this (adding preferred content), feel free to be bold in your editing, if it is controversial it will be discussed after the fact. STATic  message me!  00:36, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, so Sputnikmusics citation removed, fair point I didnt realise that, but in terms of the interview its pretty much an admission to basically almost copying the style of the Swan Songs album, pretty much explaining why the lyrics and sound have such a comparison (to a degree anyway) That was the point I was more or less concerned in terms of being biased, do you think it would be best to remove it? And I will in the future, I just always feel like it should be a joint effort so Im not always so keen, especially when I feel biased, I don't want to be given a bad reputation, just a precaution I take just in case. - 00:50, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Makes sense, maybe instead of quoting him just say what he said in your words, you explaining it made me understand what he was saying, but the quote you chose really didn't. As long as its written in a NPOV, as that would be the controversial part. And I can completely understand that, just some random advice.  STATic   message me!  01:05, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok I shall add it in without the quotes and just as an explination, thank you for the help and advice! - 01:20, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

EPs & Mixtape articles
Similar to what ToddAlexanderWilliamson requested last year that I have only just read somehow, I agree with, shouldn't the EPs (The Two Thousand Eight EP and Deuce Remixxxed EP) and the Mix-tape (The Call Me Big Deuce) have their own articles? I don't know if they have the right notability or not so I am unsure whether to create their own articles or not. It would also clean up the discography section massively since their track-list is taking up a lot of room there. - 20:09, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Invincible release
So http://vk.com/deuce_dotcom has now fully released Invincible. I mean I feel like he have to put something in his article. I mean I know there's no mainstream coverage but it's a released album. 75Indians75 (talk) 18:50, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * There's no mainstream coverage because it has not been released. It's either a pirated copy or has been released illegally. We are bound by both copyright law and WP:RS. Deuce's website is "http://deucela.com/" while the social media site claims the site is "Deuce.com". That site is not associated with the artist. It's not the subject's profile that has "released" the album, it's someone who is masquerading as the singer. The fact that Deuce is American and this supposedly official page is in Russian is another problem. Why doesn't Deuce have links to it on his Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/DeuceLA/) or mention it on his official Twitter account (https://twitter.com/deuce9lives)? There's no entry for it in the iTunes store or Amazon. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:08, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

That's what i've assumed. I'm currently revamping the article using VK as a source, but I have stated that "It is unknown who runs the page, whether it's Deuce or somebody not affiliated with him." and I am saying throughout the article that "A VK profile under the name "Deuce.Com"" was releasing the stuff. So I think that would be correct? Here's what the page would look like. Note that the AFD template would be on the actual article.
 * First I think you can't read English. Do you not understand what illegal means? The VK page, as far as I can tell, has no legal association with the subject. Wikipedia cannot use any information based on that social media page or anything linked to that page until it is proven to be associated with the singer. I'm not sure why you don't understand that. Adding a copy of the article to the talk page is completely inappropriate and I am removing it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:28, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

'Tha Produca'
"Aron Erlichman (born March 2, 1983), better known by his stage name Deuce (formerly known as "Tha Produca")..."

Three times i've tried to change it to "Tha Producer" since that was his nickname before 'Deuce', not 'Tha Produca'. Whoever keeps changing it back is either ignorant or they're doing it to annoy people. 2.220.201.49 (talk) 23:59, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reliable source to support that? Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:25, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source to support "Tha Produca"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.220.201.49 (talk) 03:43, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
 * No there isn't one. And now everyone knows it's not referenced. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:23, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Ok that's fine 2.220.201.49 (talk) 21:04, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Nu Metal should be added as a Genre for Deuce.
I think this as if you check the Wikipedia page for Nine Lives the album released by Deuce in 2012 one of the genres is "Nu metal", and having listened to his upcoming album "Invincible" I thought the album was a Nu Alternative Rap Metal hybrid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Lives_(Deuce_album) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dat.Furguson (talk • contribs) 16:31, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * While it's listed there, it's not sourced there. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:58, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120220064301/http://lithiummagazine.com/interview-deuce-%E2%80%93-feb-9-2012 to http://www.lithiummagazine.com/interview-deuce-%E2%80%93-feb-9-2012

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Can someone update the page?
As of a few days ago, Deuce dropped a new single and an album has been OFFICIALLY announced. Deuce - Invincible. https://www.facebook.com/DeuceLA/ https://www.facebook.com/BetterNoiseRecords/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.31.60.157 (talk) 00:08, 18 October 2017 (UTC)


 * ❌ A non-primary source should be found first. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:35, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * And the album you linked to, doesn't exist either. WP:WTAF. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:35, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Invincible isn't official, and therefore it will never be included. 2A02:C7D:5BA8:1800:9C5D:4F40:D7FE:B313 (talk) 21:00, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but if it is to be released soon, that is a different issue. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:16, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * And here's a RS: http://loudwire.com/apocalyptica-metallica-sad-but-true-video-bowl-for-ronnie-deuce-more/ Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:44, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 10 June 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 04:01, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Deuce (singer) → Deuce (musician) – The page is currently titled as a singer; however, a singer is a musician. Plus, he does more than just singing (such as production and playing instruments). Therefore, I believe this move title is more suitable for the page. ❂ string    DTD  ❂ 08:58, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom - seems pretty uncontroversial to me. Paintspot Infez (talk) 01:06, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support The article states he's a "music producer, singer, songwriter, and guitarist" .... so easy support. – Davey 2010 Talk 13:39, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Past-Tense?
Would it make sense to change a lot of the Nine Lives sections to past tense? Since people Like Truth have been retired from music for a decade, and Nine Lives itself is nonexistent now. (At least according to people close to Deuce and people who know him, no official sources on that.) But either way, they haven't done music or toured in 5 years. "He is also involved in a movement with fellow rapper Truth (Vardan Aslanyan) called "Nine Lives" (often stylized as both "9LIVES" and "IX LIVES")." is the most notable area that looks off. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aurum06 (talk • contribs) 22:52, 3 November 2021 (UTC)