Talk:DevilDriver/Archive 1

Is Devildriver really a death metal band? Without hearing any of their music, it seems that they're simply another nu metal band that have more of a death influence. Encyclopaedia Metallum doesn't have them listed which makes me think they probably aren't death at all? MrHate 23:38, May 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's definietely death metal. -- corrected "Resident Evil" to "The fury of our maker's hand" - T0b3


 * HOLY SHIT. you obviously know nothing about death metal. your idea of death metal is just fast heavy riffs with someone screaming. they have a death metal influence, but they are in no way death metal. Isilioth 09:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Guys, their genre sort of changes from album to album, their track Not All Who Wander are Lost from their album The Last Kind Words: this song uses quite alot of genre styles, The Vocals: Heavy Metal, the death growl isnt used, nor is the metalcore scream, shouting is used with the simple diaphragm technique so the vocalist doesnt damage their vocal chords, take a look at Metallica if their vocals get loud theyre not growls or screams, theyre just loud shouts, thats what heavy metal vocalling is all about

drumming: the drumming is death metal, the complexity and the speed of the drumming, the ferocity of it add to death metal for sure.

Guitaring: the guitaring is revolved around Death metal/thrash metal, mainly thrash metal because the guitars arent very downtuned, the usual deathmetal/thrashmetal riffs are used, complex fast riffs with heavy distortion, during the verses palm muting with the distortion is used to create a "chug" sound, fret movement gives different pitched "chug" sounds.

if you are going to put music into a genre thats how you work it out, not by listening to some emo kid who just puts music into any genre in his mind so he can sound cool and hardcore.

Recent changes
Regarding 209.94.135.29's change at 01:03, 5 September 2005:

I am new to this whole Wikipedia editing thing, but that edit strikes me as 'weasel words' and not a neutral point of view. I have not actually heard the band in question, so I cannot confirm that they offer 'hard uncompromising Heavy Metal', but in theory the albums themselves would be a source to prove (or disprove) that statement.

Furthermore, if this band is a Death Metal or any kind of metal band, as has been previously asserted, then the comment is nonsensical. What 'hot active trend' can they be talking about? If this band fire fire doom metalcore band, why would 'metal purists' care about this band at all? And in any case, if this band formed prior to 2003, how could their formation have anything to do with a trend that is 'hot' and active in late 2005?

I will revert the changes.

Frnknstn 20:58, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

You put a concert date on here? O.O

Im a huge Devildriver fan and they arnt nu-metal OR death metal, i believe they are thrash metal.

No they're not.
Driver is not Death Metal in the least, they are just another mallcore band. Although they may not be Nu-metal they are stll close.

I didn't find them in the Metal Archives, and that lists every true-metal band out there. Devil Driver is not even close to Death Metal, maybe they incorporate some death and other elements, but in all reality they are still a mallcore metal band. If had to be classified I would put them in Metalcore.


 * Anything 'core' is obviously going to have at least one song with at least one breakdown and/or at least something to make them sound somewhat like a hardcore or metalcore band. For god sakes learn what something means before your mouth flaps, or at LEAST listen to the music. And if their first album really makes you feel like they're mallcore or something like that check out the next 2 albums, because it's nothing close and the music gets heavier on each album so far.--69.117.117.183 05:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, reverted your changes before noticing this talk update :) As far as I know, DevilDriver believe themselves to be death metal, which is a good starting point. They are not Metalcore. Even though Metalcore sounds a lot like Death Metal, they are very different: Metalcore evolved from          punk. Please realise that 'mallcore' isn't a music genre, it's a pejorative. I have never heard this metal archive you mention. Frankly, I find the idea that there is some all-knowing encyclopaedia that can magically determine whether or not a band is 'true metal' laughable.
 * Frnknstn 09:26, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Devildriver isn't really Death Metal at all, nor are they Nu-metal they are a bit of both and a lot of neither, meaning that Devildriver is clearly not a traditional death metal band, and it's not really a nu-metal band, but there are elements of both styles mixed together. Fafara's vocals are more of a roar than a classic death metal growl, and the riffs contain a slight groove a bit more aligned with nu-metal, yet again this is not a nu-metal band, at least not by the standards set by Korn and others. The songs are a bit samey, and overall this doesn't break much new ground, but the band is capable and fits in with the current American underground extreme metal scene. I think since it is said that DevilDriver incorporates many styles into their music the label should just be simply "Metal" than just Death Metal, since basically one person could label them "Nu-metal" because that is what they could perceive, and another could label them "Death Metal" because that could be what they preceive.  I do not think DevilDriver is Death Metal in the least, or Nu-metal either, I think they are just simply metal, or even Extreme metal, so if it is agreed I believe they should just be put down as "Metal."  And for the record a lot of the metal community do not consider DevilDriver "Tr00" in a sense.


 * Sounds fine to me, but others may object. We can't make genre distictions based on how good or groundbreaking a band is; this is an encyclopaedia, not a music critic site. For the record, I don't think that the opinion of people who discuss "OMFG MeTaL!!!!111" should be taken seriously. (Just because it's 'crap', doesn't mean it isn't metal) Frnknstn 08:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, but this band does not hold the certain characteristics of a Death Metal band, at the moment they are very hard to classify, and they are Metal, just not sure what kind at the moment.


 * I don't think the people who discuss metal and have strong opinions on the subject take me seriously either, since I know nothing about Metal. So we'll set the article to "Metal" and leave it.

I read this whole section and it sounds like people are uncertain what to put down for them. I'm a pretty good fan, but I wouldn't call them Death Metal. They don't change things up enough to be labeled as totally Death Metal. They're music is more on a steady beat, while a lot of Death Metal is one way then suddenly jumps and changes, and does this so several times in just one song. Devildriver just cuts beats, doubles them, or keeps them. I wouldn't be surprised if they were influenced by Death Metal though. metalhead 19:35, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Not Death Metal
I concur with the above arguments against DevilDriver being death metal. What would classify them as such? Cparker 00:42, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

DevilDriver lacks a lot of the qualites a real Death Metal band has, just because they have rough        vocals doesn't make them Black or Death metal, in my opinon, and in a lot of others that I have talked  to, Devildriver is a Metalcore band, but if you want to get into a POV thing, and it doesn't matter,  but most metalheads, consider them very untr00. Getting down to it, though. I really would like to know why Devildriver is considered Death Metal? This article just needs to be deleted, and revamped with better resources. 70.128.111.211 02:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)Mc

The fact that the band considers themselves to be death metal is completly irrelevent. korn are listed onthis website as 'nu metal' but have distanced themselves from such labels, yet you don't take their word for it! devildrivers styleis a mix ofmetalcore and pantera-style groove metal and i have changed the article appropriately.

DEVIL DRIVER IS NOT DEATH METAL. If anything their metalcore. XXMurderSoulXx 03:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Non Bickering Comment
As someone who is familiar with death metal, the metal archives, metalcore and has actually SEEN this band i can say that they are NOT death metal. They are not brutal, they are not heavy or uncompromising. I would use the word compromise to describe their sound. Almost radio friendly.

Template says thrash???
Since when is Devildriver thrash? I've heard various of their songs and in no way are they metal (even less thrash). I hear no thrash elements at all in their music. Their riffs are more distortion-dependant than anything something very typical of hard rock or nu-metal bands (note neither are metal). I wonder if the person who labeled them as thrash has even heard a thrash album. Changing genre to something else if no suitable defense is made. Pasajero 09:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Certainly not death metal
I consider myself a casual fan of this band, but anyone with ears should be able to conclude that they aren't death metal. I could possibly understand that the leads may seem similar to those often played in death metal, but in no way does the classification of death metal suit them. I also believe that the band isn't solely the nu-metal you hear on Fuse, however nu-metal does take a light influence of true heavy metal. I think this band simply leans more toward heavy metal than most nu-metal bands do.

70.135.2.100 20:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)Convalesce990

Obviously not metalcore either
Never once has Devildriver had a breakdown in their music. Classifying them as metalcore is out of the question.

70.135.2.100 22:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)Convalesce990

Yes, they ARE Thrash...with a twist.
DevilDriver's music should be labeled as Thrash/Post-thrash or Groove. If you know how to correctly categorize Metal bands then you should be able to see this. They use all the elements a typical Thrash band would (i.e. Hardcore-Punk derived snare blasts, double-bassing, thrashy guitar riffs...) the only thing they don't do is solo. And they most certainly are NOT Nu-Metal nor Metalcore. They do have the distinct elements, too, of a Groove Metal/Post-Thrash band.

Someone needs to straighten this out, because Im tired of seeing things changed so frequently on this page.


 * Post-thrash and groove metal aren't thrash :). Pasajero 22:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

They are derivatives of thrash though. I agree with the other poster, groove metal seems like the appropriate description.

Simplynamedtron 08:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Groove Metal?

Definately. I think they lack the speed of thrash metal, but have a certain 'flow' in the rhythm and drum patterns of most songs. Groove metal.

Well Devildriver is listed here. I would like to have an opinion whether they are pure thrash or not. There seems to be a dispute over its inclusion on that page, so I thought it might get clarified here. Weltanschaunng 14:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

A proper argument, please
90% of this talk page is people saying "It isn't death metal because even though it may seem like it, it isn't." They may not have the image or themes associated with most death metal bands, but the musical traits, the vocals, the lyrical themes, most of the riffs (at least on The Fury) and even some of the drum patterns; songs such as 'Just Run' show off tempo changes that are common in their music, as well as audio effects (however they're created) that are often used in death metal. If anyone wants to suggest they're not death metal, please back it up with points like this. --Tobz1000 00:40, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok then, I'm not apart of the argument but here is my first point. They don't exactly "change" tempos, they merely cut them or double them. It is a different tempo, but in their music you can't exactly feel a tempo change like you can in a band like Death for example. When the drummer changes tempo, the guitars change and the song is played in sections. So there goes one of your points out the window. Next thing: audio sounds other than the played instruments are not necessarily death metal traits. I haven't heard many death metal bands that even do that, other than vocal effects. So there are your points. -metalhead 19:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I see what you mean about the tempo, but drumbeats nevertheless are often a groove/death hybrid. And when I said audio effects I was really thinking of the atmospheric approach they take to the introductions of some songs using synths or whatever else compared to other sounds created mostly by keyboards in other bands. Like you said, not necessarily a trait, but I think it shows signs of death influence. Thanks for writing what seems to be the first decent argument on this page. --Tobz1000


 * I've heard bands like At The Gates and In Flames (in their earlier years) use separate instruments for song intros. I've also heard Pantera using unique voiceovers during songs. I don't consider Pantera death metal though. I'm just looking for examples of your statement. metalhead 17:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Aside from that argument, have another
From the bottom of the page: "During their shows, DevilDriver have the crowd form a circle pit. These are regular circle pits but are often very large and are becoming a signature for the band, much like Lamb of God and the wall of death."

Um. Circle pits have been around for almost 30 years, the wall of death almost as long. To say either band can claim them as signatures is like saying Atari is responsible for video games or Stephen Hawking for wheelchairs. This entire article was obviously written by one or a group of 15 year olds who have been to a handful of shows. They're not thrash, certainly not death metal (where are the blast beats??), and not exactly run of the mill mallcore. They're a Fear Factory rip off at best. Songs like "Impending Disaster" should have Fear Factory's lawyers knocking on their door. Old Fear Factory was DM. But they sound nothing like old FF. They sound like new FF. So label them Industrial Metal if anything, even without the synth.--psyanide 02:12, 11 November 2006

DevilDriver / Devildriver
there are both on wikipedia can one be deleted ......prehaps Devildriver seeing as thats not how its spelt ??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.157.41.94 (talk) 16:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC).


 * It's called a redirect - I doubt everyone, if anyone, is going to bother typing the captial 'D' in the middle of the word.

Devildriver genre
regarding to the new album devildriver is GROOVE METAL FFS

Agreed. Devildriver are part of the new wave of American metal which can usually be related to groove and industrial metal. It takes influences from North European, British and American metal. The most famous bands leading this new wave are Lamb of God and Chimaira.

DevilDriver is Post-thrash
They are post thrash, like Lamb of god with death metal incorperated into it

Post-trash/groove metal is the best fitting Nickoladze 01:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

DevilDriver's genre is DevilDriver. DevilDriver have stated many times on their forums, website, and myspace that they strive for individuality and originality. I consider them Death Metal with some characteristics of a few other genres.

Thrashy and deathy, but not metalcore
Before i say anything, can i just mention im new to editing wikipedia so if i make a mistake, forgive me. and devil driver are in no way metalcore. they are rather thrashy and deathy. but to the person who said devildriver arent on metal archives, so they arent true, thats bull. metal archives have had trivium on it for ages.

Ok let's decide already
It is gettign quit tiring to come back to the DevilDriver page just to see debated as their genre. We could wait until the release of their new Cd this year but I propose we decide now. Well for starters Dez Farfara's old band is nu metal which makes sense seeing as Groove metal is derived from it. Plus there are rapping vocals so we know they aren't nu metal. The absense of a turntabalist also makes DevilDriver not nu metal. There is nothing quite strange about the song structure or time signatures making them defintely not metalcore plus the guitar work isnt fast enough. The barking vocals of dez also strengthen the fact that they are Groove metal. I don't know how you could possibly call them death metal their lyrics lack the neccessary death quality and sure doesn't tell a story. The power chiords are definetly downtuned, and as said before thye resemble Lamd of God in songs which is why they are Groove metal.They are certainly not Death metal and I do hope no one else says that they are. Now I'm new tot he site but I do hope someone goes around and changes their genre to what best suits them, Groove metal. Finz 02:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

100% Deathcore
Ok Guys Seriously, It's Deathcore. It's an amalgamation of both Deathmetal and Metalcore. Read the article about Deathcore and you'll know what I'm talking about. I took the liberty of changing the genres on the articles. Seriously there's no question about it. Deathcore

not deathcore
The guitar work isn't as fast and is much heavier than metalcore. So that part of the fusion is invalid. The song stucture is normal instead of weird like some metalcore bands snd none of the songs tell a story like some death metal bands do. They don't sound anything like Through The Eyes Of The Dead, which is deathcore or The Acacia Strain. As I mentioned earlier Dez also seems to have more of a bark than a grunt. The guitara s I said is heavy and while not as fast as metalcore is similar to that of Chimaira's later work, making it Groove Metal. All in all the page should stay the same because even though it shows three possible genres they are all the most commonly decided upon. DevilDriver is definetly not metalcore which makes them not deathcore or anything else related to it metalcore.Finz 01:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

k
Not deathcore, not death metal, not nu-metal, not thrash. Has some elements but not those genres exclusively.

Genre
This discussion on the band's genre is going nowhere fast. So far you've decided on about 10 genres that they aren't. Why must the band be assigned a specific genre? They have a wide variety of musical styles, including a lot of stuff inspired by metal styles. Why not just say that their music belongs to a variety of genres that are mostly considered to be under the whole 'umbrella-genre' of, say... "rock", or "metal"? Obviously something a little more concise than that... I think the infobox might overflow if you tried to cram that lot in ;)

--82.5.51.56 20:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

why
Ok well let's not decide at all, lets leave the band completely blank I mean they're might be arguments over why the original rhythm guitarist left. This is a discussion as fans we discuss these things If you can simply say why bother about discussing anything music related on the site. Why not label any band with a guitar as rock. You can't say nothing is being done especially since the site has said groove metal since my last comment. I hope you actually are a fan of the band I myself am seeing one of their concerts on April 2oth but anyways if you aren't a fan, or in worst case haven't even heard a couple of their songs, then why are you debating their genre. Before anyone says that the group doesn't label themselves well of course they won't what's more annoying than listeners arguing with them. Fans argue stuff we always do and always will. Yes DevilDriver contains elements of different metal genres they are MOSTLY groove metal just listen to them followed by Lamb Of God it sounds pretty similar. Instead of trying to stop the discussion for whatever reason and not contributing in anyway then to tell us their rock or metal "makes sense". Anyhow that's my paragraph of the day. I still believe Devildriver is mostly groove metal while yes being influenced from other styles as well. And as I said before the fact that the page has stayed with groove metal for at least maybe even a month shows that the discussion is going somewhere. Finz 23:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Definietely Emo
it has many emo infuleces, theyr'e not in the Metal-Archives (which says theyr'e un-true). I think it's emo because the lyric neither. and look at the vocalist, he looks like my girlfriend. 100% EMO!


 * Thanks for the flamebait. If you've got something useful to say, say it. Otherwise you should spend your time more wisely. — Burningmace 21:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you look more carefully DevilDriver is in the Metal Archives. Research things before making mindless comments please.

Duplicate articles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devildriver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DevilDriver —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.196.30.7 (talk) 17:05, 29 April 2007 (UTC).


 * You Idiot!


 * *ahem* Lol. Tobz1000 14:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

HUH
I don't mean to be rude but are you joking. Fall out Boy Can be classified as emo and your saying DevilDriver is. Do you even understand what musically emo is? You have made no proof or even logical explanation for calling DevilDriver emo. The closest thing to emo I can think of metal wise could maybe be Mudvayne or Three Days Grace and they are both Alternative metal. As for the main page even though DevilDrievr has the proper guitar tuning for death metal it lacks the lyrical content (some songs can be seen to deal with death especially the titles but they deal more with personal troubles or something completely different) example: Before the hangman's noose is really about a train. The drumming I guess is a bit blast beating but compared to Kataklysm or Goatwhore (which i compared it to) it is barely noticeable. As i mentioned earlier Dez uses barking vocals instead of grunts and the guitar work isn't as complex. The song structure also carries the basic verse-chorus unlike some death metal bands. The page should be changed back to groove metal or at least Extreme Metal since Devildriver does incorporate elements found in different Extreme metals, especially Death and Thrash. Finz 23:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DevilDriver logo.png
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Fair use rationale for Image:The Fury Of Our Makers Hand Special Edition.jpg
Image:The Fury Of Our Makers Hand Special Edition.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:10, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Melodeath... that's a new one
Someone recently added 'melodic death metal' as one of the band's genres, citing Encyclopaedia Metallum. However I really can't see how they are, and most people dispute whether they are death metal at all. Should this be kept as it is? Tobz1000 14:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Melodeath
I have seen some strange genre terms for DevilDriver but melodic death metal. That is surely wrong. No progressive metal influences, DevilDriver has never showed acoustic work, the song structures aren't progressive, would you really say their riffs are melodic? does anyone play keyboard? they definetly don't "clean sing". Melodic Death Metal: rarely contains satanic lyrics. DevilDriver: "Why not kill your maker instead." "The Devil's Son has just begun to shine." DevilDriver doesn't contain any poetic themes. DevilDriver isn't Melodic Death Metal so could someone please change this. Finz 02:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That's two votes against... alright, I'm changing it back. I think a 'genre controversy' section could be considered. -Tobz1000 02:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Solution
I've added a genre section and changed the genre in the infobox to Disputed. I've tried to keep the dialect as fluid as possible as not to propose a single correct genre, hence the list of suggested genres. Hope you find the change agreeable. — Burningmace 21:37, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair
As long as you keep groove metal up there, and keep "early" in brackets next to the genre of metalcore then I'm happy. Finz 22:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Their self-titled album (genre)
I can't help but think that their first album is borderline nu metal, but more or less could be appropriately described as alternative metal, due to the fact that it lacks common nu metal traits (rapping, turntables etc..) Anyone agree? Dmiles21 00:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I See A Lot Of Nots...
And I agree. So let's agree that they cannot be categorized under any genre or sub-genre and are nothing. And you know what another word for nothing is? Shit. DevilDriver sounds like shit, looks like shit, and IS shit.

128.61.69.41 16:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I never knew nothing equaled shit.
Nor did I know Wikipedia was all about peoples' personal opinions. It seems 95% of the arguments in this page are backed up with either "they suck" or "because the Metal Archives says so". Shocking as it may be, your personal distaste for something isn't the consensus of the rest of the world, and perhaps even further shocking, the Metal Archives aren't as infallibly all-knowing as so many like to claim.

MagicBear 20:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)