Talk:Devizes Plot

More Sources
If anyone has access to the following: Please let me know or expand the article with them. Thanks, Pahunkat (talk) 21:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The London Cage (by Scotland), though note what's already said in the literature section by Normann
 * The London Cage (by Helen Fry)
 * Newspapers covering the plot at the time, in particular there was apparently significant coverage of the trial of Rosterg's murderers according to De Normann ( etc)


 * Also "The March on London" by Charles Whiting (this one is on openlib), Hitler's hangmen by Gerwarth might have something. Pahunkat (talk) 08:12, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

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British POW case
More context on this use by the Germans to support an affirmative defense would be appreciated. Was it decided that the circumstances were substantially different or did the British simply hang the Germans for the same crime because they weren't their own people? 100.40.29.79 (talk) 01:18, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I’ll have a look in a bit, De Normann’s coverage of the trial was pretty comprehensive if I remember correctly so hopefully there’ll be something. Pahunkat (talk) 01:44, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * , done here ft. Whiting and Campbell. Pahunkat (talk) 08:44, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

discrepancy
in the 'Lynching of Wolfgang Rosterg' section it states he was beaten to death, but in the following section, Conviction of murderers, it states 'An autopsy of Rosterg's body determined that he had died of strangulation.' Potholehotline (talk) 03:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * , I've tried to clarify that section. Sources state death occurred due to strangulation but it was inconsistent with that due to hanging. Pahunkat (talk) 07:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Pahunkat thanks for getting back on this so quickly, maybe that datum could be put into the article. this world can throw some weird ones at us, strangulation via being beaten...
 * and thanks for your hard work on the article Potholehotline (talk) 17:17, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * , it's all very confusing. When I started writing the article I was going off the Guardian/Gazette and Herald sources which were generally in agreement with each other, then in came De Normann which straight up contradicted many of the things I had already written.
 * What seems to be agreed is that Rosterg was already dead by the time he was hung up in the toilets. p.118 of De Normann states Rosterg was "beaten to death", which is where my initial statement in the article on being beaten to death came from. But it later goes on to quote one of the German PoWs who witnessed the ordeal saying he was "strangled with a rope", and a medical witness in the trial stating the beatings "were not serious enough to cause death". From my own interpretation of the three book sources sources I'd propose this -
 * It's generally agreed that Rosterg already had a noose around his neck when he was dragged from Hut 4 towards the toilets. Whiting gives a pretty vivid, probably over-emphasised depiction of this (p.133, The March on London), and it certainly reads like he was being strangled then ("The rope dug deeper into his neck. His tounge came out. His eyes popped"). I'd argue that, given the autopsy result was he died to strangulation (Campbell p.87, Normann p.151), it would make the most sense for him to have been strangled when he was being dragged to the toilets with the rope. So in summary, you are likely right to point out a discrepancy. I don't think he was beaten to death which led to strangulation, it seems more that he was dragged on the ground with a rope about his neck which caused strangulation.
 * No source explicitly states this connection, so it would be original research for me to put this opinion in the article. I'll see what I can do to improve the wording of the section though. Pahunkat (talk) 18:48, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * See here for the changes I've made. Pahunkat (talk) 18:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Pahunkat thanks for doing what you could to clarify a particularly unclear event. the whole thing reminds me that the word 'history' refers to two distinct concepts; that which has happened, and what we know about what has happened. as a kid i had a hard time wrapping my head around the word 'prehistoric', thinking it referred to what happened before anything happened. again,  thanks for the time and effort, your latest edit definitely helps one understand what (might have) happened Potholehotline (talk) 20:44, 14 June 2024 (UTC)