Talk:Devolved English parliament

Majorities in England
It might be interesting to have a look at the list of UK general election results over the last few decades and figure out what the results would have been had Scotland/Ireland/Wales not counted. I guess sometimes Labour had a government in the UK but Conservatives would have formed a majority in England. Morwen - Talk 17:32, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC) Labour would have won all elections in 1997, 2001, and 2005, in seats in England alone. Plus they would have won by the popular vote in 1997 and 2001 in England alone too. There is a myth that has developed that because labour was beaten in the popular vote in 2005 by the Tories in England, in 2005, that this would have been the case in every other election. In reality when Labour win a general election, in the United Kingdom as a whole, they normally win the popular vote in England too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ItallianNigerian (talk • contribs) 21:00, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Cleanup
I will clean up this article in time to come, but if anyone wishes to help, this is the structure I think is needed:


 * Intro (well, duh)
 * History - how England had a parliament, into which members from Wales and Scotland were introduced (only short)
 * Devolution and West Lothian Question
 * Proposals - going over possible new systems
 * Activity - the campaign so far, the groups that support it
 * Regions - need to say how they have been put forward as an alternative, but are now (probably) dead.

It might seem a bit much, but I think in years to come this will be an far greater issue than it is today. It also has far-reaching consequences (maybe another section?) for the United Kingdom, far greater than Welsh or Scottish parliaments. Oswax 14:31, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Name Change
Is it possible (or desirable) for this article to be renamed English Devolution? The issue is, in truth, devolution, with a parliament only one of a many possible answers. Oswax 15:51, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * A devolved English Parliament is something distinct from an independent English Parliament or a confederal English Parliament. It's a valid title. wonko (talk) 08:53, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I typed in "English devolution" and got redirected here. What about the issue of devolution in the different regions of England (regional assemblies) or even devolution that already exists - the London Assembly or even existing local government (county councils, city councils etc) which is a form of devolution aswell. Cap 15:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Propaganda
This page looks like propaganda for the CEP, ECC and English Democrates! Let me guess Oswax, are you involved in one of these groups? How about a page for the regionalisation of England by groups such as the Wessex regionalists, Cornish Constitutional Convention and Devolve England. 80.119.40.170 16:33, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'm not involved in any of the groups, and think that an English parliament would be a very, very, very worthless project. Doesn't stop me from being interested though. Oswax 01:49, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * No one seems to mention that England alone (officialy) consists of nine regions that are entitled install their own Parliament. In reality, London has done just that since time immortal. I may have read that John Prescott tried to preassurise the North-East to do the same. As for the Cornish question, I guess it is ok to be ruled from a Parliament set up in Bristol. Being from Plymouth, I will easily disagree. --82.134.28.194 (talk) 12:17, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

History of this movement
I remember studying this area briefly while at university, specifically looking at Joseph Chamberlain and I believe there is some scope for examing his early political career and his proposals around Home Rule for the regions. IIRC he came from the non-conformist tradition from the Midlands and opposed Home Rule for Ireland on the basis that if it was good for Ireland then why not the rest of the Union? I suspect he moved away this position as he got older, but it still could be an interesting footnote as it were. Juan Incognito 02:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Original research/personal opinion?

 * "Since the Welsh Assembly has no primary legislative powers, the introduction of an English Parliament would mean that the Assembly would gain legislative competence and become a Welsh Parliament."

Not necessarily. Although it would be a bit awkward and unfair, there's no practical reason why such affairs could not remain in the competence of the UK Parliament.


 * It is interesting to note that the Labour Party have avoided this question because 'any diminution of the influence of Welsh and Scottish MPs in English affairs could lead to a Labour government having minority support when voting on issues which only affect England.

(my emphasis). This statement is definitely personal opinion/original research. If that's the consensus amongst political journals/analysts then it should be backed up with citations. --kingboyk 04:03, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

London Assembly
This isn't really a devolved regional assembly but rather a scrutiny chamber for metropolis-wide administration. Also the referendum was for the Mayor and Assembly as one single package, with most of the attention on the Mayor. Timrollpickering 16:26, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Devolution from what?
The creation of a "parliament of England" would take powers away from our existing parliament, founded by the English in the middle ages, with all its ancient traditions etc. And the idea that England has no parliament is ridiculous. It meets in London and has something like 80% English membership. These campaigners are anti-English. TharkunColl 11:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * And with respect, you miss the point. You said it yourself that it is not a totally English parliament. The parliament in London is a British parliament, meeting in London does not make it English, it makes it British when there are MPs from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 02:19, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Not if they form such a small minority. The parliament in London is our own, the one founded by the English in the Middle Ages. Even back then it had people in it from outside England - such as the King of Scotland - in attendance. TharkunColl 09:16, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please look up the Act of Union, Thark. -- Boothman   /tɔːk/  18:50, 26 August 2007 (UTC).

The Cornish question
Added the following:- In Cornwall there has been a campaign since 1998 for a devolved Cornish Assembly, along the lines of the Scottish Parliament, National Assembly for Wales and Northern Ireland Assembly, which would operate independently of Westminster. In 2001 Cornwall demonstrated the largest expression of popular support for devolved power in the whole of the United Kingdom and possibly Europe when a 50,000 petition for a Cornish Assembly was handed to the government. The petition had the support of all five Cornish Lib Dem MPs, Cornwall Council and most independent councillors. Cornish nationalists argue that the 'Cornish question' should not be overlooked and that any new constitutional arrangements involving a devolved English parliament would have to take into account Cornwall's nationhood. In 1998 Cornwall had been recognised by the UK Government as having "distinct cultural and historical factors reflecting a Celtic background"and in a 2004 poll 44% of those asked in Cornwall said they felt Cornish, rather than English or British. On 8th May 1990, The Guardian newspaper editorial commented - ''“Smaller minorities also have equally proud visions of themselves as irreducibly Welsh, Irish, Manx or Cornish. These identities are distinctly national in ways which proud people from Yorkshire, much less proud people from Berkshire will never know. Any new constitutional settlement which ignores these factors will be built on uneven ground.”''


 * BBC News 2001 - 50,000 declarations calling for a Cornish assembly Meine (talk) 10:04, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Proposed change for the section entitled "Devolution and the West Lothian question"
In light of the recent decision by the Welsh to claim fully devolved parliamentary powers for the Welsh Assembly, I have drafted the following text:

Revised
Since, by a vote of nearly 2:1 in favor of Welsh devolution in a referendum of 3 March 2011, the issue of Welsh dependence upon UK sovereignty is now open to question, then the argument that the introduction of an English Parliament would result in unwanted delegation of legislative authority for Wales is also debatable. In a BBC article of 17 March 2011, Torfaen MP and former Welsh secretary Paul Murphy argues that English devolution is the inevitable result of the Welsh devolution referendum.

--Sierkejd (talk) 01:56, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I would drop the claim that "since...the issue of Welsh dependence upon UK sovereignty is now open to question, then the argument that the introduction of an English Parliament would result in unwanted delegation of legislative authority for Wales is also debatable" unless you can source it and attribute the opinion. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:09, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Original
Although the Welsh Assembly has limited primary legislative powers in areas where it has been devolved from houses of parliament, there is a chance the introduction of an English Parliament would result in the Assembly gaining full legislative competence and becoming a Welsh Parliament. Of the mainstream political parties in Wales, only Plaid Cymru (which wants outright independence) and the Liberal Democrats support this. Scotland and Northern Ireland already have separate legal systems and laws, so the delegation of legislative authority does not cause any such issues.

Sierkejd (talk) 23:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that it needs changing, but there is some unsourced opinion in your revised draft (though not as much as there is in the original text). I would try to avoid speculating on the implications of the referendum. Cordless Larry (talk) 00:04, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Larry. I notice no one has added a better alternative.  I will try to figure out which parts are the least sourced and modify or omit them before posting.  --Sierkejd (talk) 01:52, 30 March 2011 (UTC)