Talk:Dharma Initiative

Station Numbering & the Lamp Post
Given that "[station] One (the first built) is in California," that "The Lamp Post is [...] located in Los Angeles," and that since the Lamp Post was used to find the island it was, of necessity, built before the others, is it not then extremely likely that the Lamp Post is station One? Should the numbering in the article show that? mennsa (talk) 13:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the Flame is #4 and it had clearly been finished long before the Swan (#3), so I'm guessing the numbers don't correspond to the order in which they were built. --Jackieboy87 (talk · contribs) 14:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I think we have to go on whatever they are refered to as in any Dharma Film as our primary source. If a number is not given, it has to be classified as a "?" as we still don't know. The Blast Door map mentions more stations that don't seem to correspond to any stations we have been shown yet (for example, there is a reference to a light manufacturing faciliy, amongst others). I noted that in HES OUR YOU, there were 14 department heads present for the meeting where Sayid's fate was decided. Assuming we have Sawyer as head of Security, Amy as head of administration (but both would be considered BARRACKS station), Chang was not even there, Horace for the Arrow, Radzinski for the Flame, then we still seem to have undiscovered stations out there.


 * well, the blast door maps have a lot more stations. According to the blast door map there is a "light manufacturing facility" as well as a "meteorological observation station" that are directly cited on the blast door map that have yet to be shown.  There is a "CVII", which conceivably could be station 107 if you believe in roman numerals, or could be some combination thereoff.  Agree with where this is heading, if it were up to me, there would be a 'Oldham's Station' to reflect the nature of Oldham's station, that seemed to be the designated interrogation area, even if not a permanent facility.  Whippletheduck (talk) 03:29, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Dr Marvin Candle/Edgar Haliwax/Pierre Chang
I am sure that by Season 6, there will be a better reason given why the same man claims in no less then three different Dharma Initiative films/documentaries that he is whom he says he is. And while it is still possible that at this point, anything could be true, but I think we need to address him by whatever film he appears in in the context we saw it on the show By that, in the Swan Station, he needs to be refered to as Dr Marvin Candle; on the Orchid, as Dr Edgar Halliwax; and in the Pearl Station by Pierre Chang name he used; (and possible in the FLAME station as well, I don't remember his name in that computer thing). Whippletheduck (talk) 09:32, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

There is still no real answer for why Pierre Chang uses synodymns two other times (and maybe he has other names at other station orientation films). My theory right now is these "name" changes derive from the incident and changes to the time stream that we the viewers will notice and so will the Survivors but not the DI for some reason. my two cents. Whippletheduck (talk) 01:31, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Benjamin Linus Credibility
In this show, it has become all but impossible to take Ben at his word on ANYTHING he says. The man lies as his first, second, and third resort thru out the show (and is a complement to actor Michael Emerson). Wiki is not a place for deliberate discussions on the pros and con's of what a fictional character may or may not say or do. So my two cents is that we need to let it be at some point with the simple statement of "Ben cannot be taken at his word on anything he says" as it is impossible to do so. I can think of a hundred ways Ben's "not always" statement could be twisted so that he gets himself off the hook for ordering the purge to him flat out lying to Locke and Hurley about it. Whippletheduck (talk) 07:44, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

The trigram itself is NOT the DI logo
Out of curiosity, why is Cloverfield's inclusion of the Bagua "clearly the Dharma logo"? Are we changing history now? One of the beauties of wikipedia is how researching one topic can lead you to research many other connected ones. In this case the bagua reference is a dead end --217.14.11.181 (talk) 20:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed! When I clicked on the image of the "Dharma" logo from Cloverfield included in this article, I thought it looked like a simple bagua instead.  It's a small image, but when I enlarged it, I didn't see any symbols in the center circle, as a Dharma Initiative logo would have. --Lance E Sloan (talk) 18:34, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Requested move
DHARMA Initiative → Dharma Initiative — Okay, I'll try this again since the page got moved with no discussion and then the redirect accidentally edited so it couldn't be moved back. The title is an acronym, however according to Acronym and initialism, acronyms pronounced as words or of a certain length are not necessarily always written in all capitals. Also this is the name of a group from a television show, and the show itself does not in fact use all capitals, as can be seen in this screenshot. --DocNox 05:21, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 06:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

ERROR
The article refers to the planet Mercury as the Morning Star and Evening Star in the discussion "Station ? : the Staff = Caduceus which in greek/roman mythology refers to mercury (morning/evening star)." Venus, not Mercury is the morning/evening star. See: morning star and hesperus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.65.21.231 (talk) 05:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The Temple is a Station?
I don't remember there ever being any confirmation on the temple being a station. I thought the Temple was an actual Temple, and I don't think it has ever been classifed as a station. If this is true then there should be some kind of confirmation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alotofsparetime (talk • contribs) 13:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * On the map which whos the temple, there is a dharma logo. Tabor (talk) 23:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

as of the conclusion of season 5, it is 100% unknown what the Temple is or is not. THe only facts we know is that it is NOT open to just "the Others" as neither Karl nor Alex had any idea it even existed. The Swan Station's Blast Door map makes it clear there are many places out there, and are facinating to read and ponder if they even exist or are real or what. Whippletheduck (talk) 03:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Connection to Sharks
In the section about the Hydra station, a possibility is mentioned of a connection between the station and a shark seen in a previous episode. The episode featured a shark with the DHARMA logo near its fin. However, in the article about the aforementioned episode, it is stated that the creators of Lost wanted this to be nothing more than an easter egg. So shouldn't the part about sharks be amended? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.104.152 (talk) 17:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I do remember hearing the creators of LOSt saying that. However in the current LOST 2.0 presentation that takes place on G4TV cable channel, they make it a point for the fans to look for the DI logo on the Shark. Add that to that in the video game LOST: VIA DOMUS, when you are exploring the Hydra station, you encounter the corpse of a Shark that was being experimented on by the Dharma Initiative. The creators of LOST have said you are supposed to view the game as something that took place while other events were going on in the island. So to me...well, I think the Shark Tattoo has to stand, solely on the grounds that it is indeed there and there is now evidence to conclude that at least the old Dharma Initative prior to the Purge were conducting experiments on Sharks as part of their zoological research mandate they had from the Hanso Foundation. Whippletheduck (talk) 02:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

In the episode when young Walt, his father, and Sawyer were aloft on the raft, a shark pursued them, and caused their vessel to topple. The shark bored a "Dharma" logo on it. One can even 'reliably'speculate that the shark was probably manipulated by either Jacob, or "Smokey", or even the "The Others", using leftover "DI" animal control equipment!!! --184.207.7.195 (talk) 18:47, 25 December 2015 (UTC)Veryverser

The Staff - Mothers that have given birth?
The section for The Staff states "It is a room, as told by Juliet, used for the mothers that have given birth on the island. It is where the mothers are taken to die."

Near as I can tell, these women that die haven't actually given birth - they generally die while still pregnant and in their second trimester ("Most of the women made it into the middle of their second trimester, nobody made it to their third." - Juliet in D.O.C.). I don't think a single woman that ever actually gave birth on the island died in that room - the only two women known to have given birth on the island lived on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.6.202.64 (talk) 12:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that room may have been used to deliver the children that were conceived PRIOR coming onto the island (ala, both claire and I imagine Sun would have ended up there as well.  It's possible that there have been other women on the island whom had their children delivered there and then God only knows what happened to them or the children.  It's speculated that charlotte lewis may well have been born on the island if you believe some of the hyperbole out there. Whippletheduck (talk) 03:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

dharma
Perhaps the meaning of the Dharma Initiative is to research the absolute truths and meanings of the universe. The word Dharma is "an Indian spiritual and religious term, that means one's righteous duty, or any virtuous path in the common sense of the term. In Indian languages it contextually implies one's religion. Throughout Indian philosophy, Dharma is present as a central concept that is used in order to explain the "higher truth" or ultimate reality of the universe."

The symbol of Dharma is "The Wheel". If you look at the center of the wheel. It quite resembles the Dharma Initiative logo doesn’t it?

Simply look at the wikipedia article on Dharma.

63.127.8.130 (talk) 14:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)RadicalxEdward

Security System
Should this be "Cerebus Security System" or "Cerberus Security System?" I've never watched the show, so I don't know, but the latter seems a bit more likely. Unless, of course, the writers are having a little joke.

Nah, that's unheard-of among TV show writers...

Anyhow, someone conversant with the show might want to check this.

* Septegram * Talk * Contributions * 14:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Lost appearences on pop culture
I can't seem to remember where/when there was a Half Life mention on Lost's Season 1. If someone could please citate some references, I might remember. Otherwise, that piece of info should receive the [cit nedded] tag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.46.253.180 (talk) 23:56, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

In Cloverfield, DARPA is probably a reference to DARPA rather than a semi-homophones. --ScottieB (talk) 14:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Lamppost or Lamp Post?
It's both within this article and Lamp Post within the 316 (Lost) article. Consensus please?


 * ABC's official summary of the episode uses Lamp Post. --Jackieboy87 (talk · contribs) 22:47, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

 Wikicow666 (talk) 21:32, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

University of Michigan facts relating to Dharma
[User:Rogue Penguin]: read more carefully. There is *no* speculation in the facts I added regarding the Ann Arbor context for the DHARMA Initiative. They are simply facts. Draw your own conclusions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wfzimmerman (talk • contribs) 14:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I would argue that by itself, Ann Arbor is a very unremarkable city. The University of Michigan is the only thing that Ann Arbor is known for. Therefore, Radzinski saying he will "call Ann Arbor", what do you think he is calling, the Mayor or Police Chief? No, he is calling whomever it is that is behind the DHARMA initiative, and they almost certainly are tenured professors at the university.Whippletheduck (talk) 22:13, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's both speculation and opinion.
 * "Thus, the connection between DHARMA and U of M is plausible and adds some flavor to the description of DHARMA." This is your opinion.
 * "ERIM's assets, including its classified contracts, were sold and the company essentially went out of business only a few years after the Purge." This attempts to draw a connection between real-world history and the show history, also speculation and your opinion.
 * So yes, there is speculation there. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 00:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I was refering to the edit that was made where I stated that it would be University of Michigan that would be calling the shots, not Ann Arbor itself. You swtiched it over to Ann Arbor, which technically is what Radzinksky said but it not what he meant. He was calling whomever is in charge of the DI and they clearly are at the University. Agree with you on the stuff you said againstWfzimmerman or whatever. Whippletheduck (talk) 03:32, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll concede that the base connection to the university is not much of a stretch. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 16:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Well it's not that big a deal which is why I have not put it back in myself. Ann Arbor the city by itself would be nothing without the University of Michigan there. While continuity would tell us that Karen Degroots and that other guy may be involved in this process (and may be directly whom Radzinski was talking about), and while it is correct to say that Radzinski did say "Ann ARbor" (I could claim he was talking about a person but that would be dumb) and did not say "Univ of Mich', the fact is, they often refer to Michigan as Ann Arbor, for example, if you watch a college football game from Univ of Michigan, they say it is from "Ann Arbor". Again, not that big a deal.  Whippletheduck (talk) 16:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

"With Dharma at the forefront of the current season, the Michigan references have been coming at a greater frequency, with a Dharma resident in a recent episode threatening to "call Ann Arbor" to settle a dispute." --  Wikipedical (talk) 02:09, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

• As this is true which it apparently is... Then the movie Red Notice has referred to both the Dharma Initiative and U of M in its latest design of the hatch of Hitler's hidden bunker. As you can clearly see, it is a reference to all the Dharma symbols and U of M memorabilia (LOST) ~ Wikicow666 (talk) 21:37, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Date of purge and Danielle's team reaching the island
This article has the purge taking place in 1992, whereas Danielle reached the island in 1988. However, the latter was the same year that Alex was taken as a baby, when Ben and Ethan had already joined the others, meaning that the purge had already taken place four years before the given date. Given that the link to that date is dead, I question the accuracy of the given date. It would certainly explain why the Dharma never picked them up given they were already dead. 86.177.111.33 (talk) 20:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Your off on your timeline. Danielle did reach the Island by 1988 sometime (how early or late was not clear). We know that the events from the time she arrived on the Island to the time Jin witnessed her execute Robert was probably a month or two. A few months after that, the abduction of Alex took place. We don't REALLY know what happened on the Island from the time of the Incident to the time of the Purge....our only REAL source is the Swan Station blast door map, and while a very good source, even that is cryptic at times. The map has annotations regarding additional incidents on it, if you have not read that part. We also don't know why Dr Chang became Dr Whickman/Halliwax/Candle, which I personally believe it has something to do with things being changed but the universe correcting things (per Eloise Hawking in season 3). In any case, the only thing we need know is that the Purge took place in 92. We don't know what REALLY happened, which is why it is notable that we note that the DI made no attempt to locate Danielle. Since we know the DI has some smart people there, someone would have been able to interpret what Danielle was saying. We know all stations have communications abillity, even if the Flame station had fallen to the Hostiles. Bottom line, the accuracy of the dates of what you are saying are accurate. Whippletheduck (talk) 02:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You know you haven't actually given any concrete evidence as to why we should believe the date 1992 being that of the Purge.

Dates aside, let's compare the events, shall we? Why the Dharma never picked Danielle up suggests that they were already dead. This is further supported by the fact that had Danielle been on the island before the purge, she should have been killed by the gas. When Ben took Alex, it was clear that he and Ethan had already join the Others. Ask yourself this: Wouldn't the Dharma have found it odd that Ben suddenly had a baby with him out of nowhere, and four year old Alex was nowhere to be found during the purge? (86.176.85.95 (talk) 16:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC))

We know the purge took place on Ben Linus's birthday because on the day of the Purge there was that scene where Ben called his dad out on forgetting his birthday yet again. That is pretty much a slam dunk that ben's birthday is on December whatever. Slam Dunk proof on it. As far as your points go in order....


 * The fact that Danielle had been on the Island BEFORE the purge is also proof she was there in 1988. The show has already concluded that there are parts of the island that the DI is firmly in control of; and parts of the Island that the Hostiles were in firm control of.  It seems Danielle was stranded in a sector of the island that the Hostiles were in control of.


 * Danielle was no where near the Barracks, which as far as we know, is the only station that they used gas to attack with. We don't know what happened to the rest of the stations per se.  Maybe they stormed them by force.  Maybe then sent the Smoke Monster to directly attack other stations.  Lots of things oculd have happened.


 * Ben and Ethan being members of the Others was probably not something that they advertised. They probably pretended to be normal members of the DI, all the way up to the moment they betrayed them.


 * I agree that where Alex was raised, at least in her first four years, is up in the air.  She did NOT know about the Temple until Ben revealed it existed to her in season 4, so I don't think she was raised there.  Maybe Ben brought her back to the Barracks.  Maybe Ben left her in the Other's camp. Dunno, and I doubt we are going to get an answer.  Heck, for all we know, with the INCiDENT, we don't even know if time has been changed or not.  For the record, I do believe that the existence of the Dr Candle/Whickman/Halliwax videos are somehow connected to the other named incidents on the island, where Time was changed, but Eloise Hawkings 'the Universe Corrects Itself" theory bringing him back somehow.

Overall while I appreciate where you are coming from, the facts are that the Purge took place on Ben's Birthday, 1992, which is known to be mid to late decemberWhippletheduck (talk) 05:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed unsourced info
Removed it because it was unsourced, but to be re-incorporated if it is found to be true. That Ole' Cheesy Dude (Talk to the hand!) 02:31, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

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