Talk:Dhyana in Buddhism

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 February 2021 and 4 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): D.sans1997.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:25, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Dhyana is not samadhi
'Dhyana is not samadhi. Dhyana, the fourth dhyana, is awareness, mindfulness; samadhi is closing-off consciousness. While I've often wondered about the term samadhi in the eightfold path, I've never thought that the term is plain wrong there. But it is. Which implies that the eightfold path is a later summary, reflecting the growing importance of jhana in the Buddhist tradition after the death of the Buddha, under the influence of non-Buddhist traditions (see Bronkhorst, Gombrich, etc., on this growing influence). This is also reflected in the tradional Theravada-account of "sila, samadhi, prajna," in which samadhi precedes insight, while the eightfold path starts with insight, in the form of samma-ditti.

Something is really odd there; it seems to imply that non-Buddhist ascetic traditions, which were also incorporated into Buddhism, were even more influential that Bronkhorst c.s. envisioned. Well, at least in the Theravada-tradition, which ironically sees itself as the gatekeeper of original Buddhism! Compare it with Zen-meditation, where dhyana is not merely concentrationm but 'indifferent' attention to what comes up in the mind and body. Yeah, really odd. No wonder Theravada is so scholastic; they had to cover-up these incorporations, and try to make them orthodox. But dhyana is not samadhi, and insight alone does not suffice. It's mindfulness of the arising of disturbing thoughts and emotions which 'does the trick'. What would the eightfold path look lik3, when we replace samadhi with dhyana - or when we leave it out altogether? Would it still work? I guess so. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  03:48, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

So, I noticed this before, six years ago... Talk:Dhyāna in Buddhism/Archive 1, see here. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  04:30, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

This notion from Frauwallner is relevant here:

It's even possible to regard the first two dhyana's as referring to concentration-mediation, while th third and fourth refer to something diffeent, related to mindfulness. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  08:26, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanissaro Bhikkhu on the Visuddhimagga
Thanissaro Bhikkhu is critical about the use of the Visuddhimagga as a meditation-guide; see Concentration and Discernment. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  06:56, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Jhana according to Joshua Jonathan
Jhana - according to Dutch citizen Joshua Jonathan - is 'the training of the mind'. And yet nowhere in the history of Buddhism has such an assertion ever been made and nowhere can such a definition be found. 82.27.90.157 (talk) 18:45, 26 June 2020 (UTC)


 * What's the relevance of me being Dutch? Your edits changed diff changed sourced info
 * into
 * This is sourced info. It starts with "In the oldest texts of Buddhism." The point of view you are pushing is the traditional point of view of the Theravada-tradition; and a misrepresentation of the Vipassana-movement point of view - mindfulness leads to vipassana (insight), not meditative absorption.
 * This is sourced info. It starts with "In the oldest texts of Buddhism." The point of view you are pushing is the traditional point of view of the Theravada-tradition; and a misrepresentation of the Vipassana-movement point of view - mindfulness leads to vipassana (insight), not meditative absorption.
 * This is sourced info. It starts with "In the oldest texts of Buddhism." The point of view you are pushing is the traditional point of view of the Theravada-tradition; and a misrepresentation of the Vipassana-movement point of view - mindfulness leads to vipassana (insight), not meditative absorption.
 * This is sourced info. It starts with "In the oldest texts of Buddhism." The point of view you are pushing is the traditional point of view of the Theravada-tradition; and a misrepresentation of the Vipassana-movement point of view - mindfulness leads to vipassana (insight), not meditative absorption.


 * Regarding "training of the mind," see Annutara Nikaya 3.88:
 * Get your basics right before you start with commenting. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  19:10, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Get your basics right before you start with commenting. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  19:10, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Dhyāna which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Terminology
According to dhyana, "dhyana" is an English word. It's already in the title of the article, but the body can be changed to just use that term except where the Sanskrit form is being noted. (This will save a lot of italics and make the article easier to read.) -- Beland (talk) 07:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC)