Talk:Digital Juice, Inc.

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3O resolution
To Checks and Balances from a Bangalore IP: you have a clear conflict of interest. If the information on the main page is inaccurate, you need to correct it. Digital Juice must have a history after 1997. When you delete anything after 1997, you make this wikipedia entry worthless. If this article is to have any value at all, it needs to be a more than a whitewashed PR hack. Some information that has been added and deleted includes what happened to Ballistic Pixel, what happened to DJTV and where are most of the companies employees located? I think there are neutral answers to all of these questions. There are also a lot of very positive additions, like awards and new projects, so this can be done in a neutral way. Ex-employees and the large staff of the Bangalore office are doubly insulted when you do not acknowledge even their existence.

More, you should not be editing someone elses comments on the Talk page. This page is for discussion. Do not edit other people's comments.(DJCEO (talk) 00:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC))

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That is so crazy that an editor from a Digital Juice domain came in and changed this entry by deleting any history of the company after 1997 in exactly the same way as Checks and Balances used to do from a Bangalore IP. Amazing!


 * 11:46, 1 February 2010 (hist | diff) Digital Juice, Inc. ‎ (Undid revision 340987657 by DJCEO (talk)) (top)  (DJCEO (talk) 02:59, 4 February 2010 (UTC))

This is a dispute between two editors but I doubt the "editor" that keeps deleting my posts is interested in any sort of resolution. We could get almost all the way to resolving this if there was any history for Digital Juice after 1997. DJCEO (talk) 02:15, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Third opinion
Alright, here's my opinion, though it's kinda hard to give one without sufficient discussion. Basically, I more or less agree with the reversions here. DJCEO, you are almost certainly a conflict of interest with this article, as it's about your company. This article is not a place for advertising or promotion. Information on Wikipedia must be neutral and verifiable. Adding text like "By 2006, the company was producing dozens of new products a year and was also creating free content in the form of a monthly printed publication and weekly DJTV shows." (as you did here) and random quotes from the CEO (yourself?) like here is unacceptable. It's true that the other editors here didn't handle it properly and should have discussed their reversions, but the fact remains that text like that cannot be allowed in a Wiki article. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 02:37, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Ha! Too clever for my own good. Sorry! "DJCEO" is meant to be ironic, so it is funny that you find my additions so positive! In fact, I meant them to reflect well on Digital Juice, even though I am only an ex-employee. So why does the editor I am in conflict with Checks and Balances (also an ironic name), Bangalore IP and digitaljuice.com IP always delete my entries? I am sorry "DJCEO" is confusing - I am a former employee and not a bitter one, I just want some history of the company after 1997. The "contributors" that delete everything I write automatically need to be stopped or banned or they need to write a history after 1997. DJCEO (talk) 02:49, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh, sorry I mistook you for the CEO. My guess is that they're reverting your edits because they're pushing a point of view. It's not neutral and it's not sourced at all. I don't know where you're getting your information, but technically text shouldn't be added to Wikipedia unless it's verifiable by reliable sources - newspapers, magazines, and so on. The text you added here doesn't have any of that. I know it was a little heavy-handed of them to do so, and you probably should have left messages on their talk pages to try to get them to talk about their reversions. I'm going to try to find some sources for the text in that paragraph and get it into the article. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 02:55, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Update: I really can't find references for any of this. No articles that I can find mention any connections between Digital Juice and a move to Bangalore, layoffs, contract work, or Ballistic Pixel. Without references, we really shouldn't put it in. I don't know where you got your information from, but gossip between friends or former colleagues simply isn't acceptable as a source. Sorry. As a side note, I found a review of a product from 2008 that says the company is based in Florida. :/ —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 03:00, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with you on sources. This is based on more than gossip but Digital Juice is too small to have newspapers and magazines following it so like most of the content in the article there are not any sources for anything. Digital Juice has a warehouse in Florida but other than freelance workers the entire production staff is in Bangalore. You can see the Bangalore IP coming in and making the same deletions. The article is pretty poor with no history after 1997 and employees that worked there after 1997 or in Bangalore are frustrated the real CEO David Hebel keeps erasing any reference to us. I wish we could be acknowledged in the article. I can link to Digital Juice Animations Pvt Ltd Bangalore to source the Bangalore office in a neutral tone there are google map references and yahoo and all sorts of links to Digital Juice Bangalore. I promise David Hebel will come in and Undo the change. Is there a way to stop that? Thank you for your time. DJCEO (talk) 15:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * An IP from Bangalore editing this article doesn't mean anything; I'm pretty sure that there are more people living in Bangalore than just the people who work at Digital Juice. I'm sorry that you feel slighted by the article, but there really isn't much that can be done without sources. Google Maps and Yahoo and whatever else aren't reliable sources, so they can't be used. I'm probably going to condense the Products section down to a paragraph or two just so it's less of an advertisement, and the History section should probably be cut down as well. As to Hebel coming in and undoing the changes, well, we'll deal with that when it happens. Until now I haven't been active at this article, but I'll keep an eye on it. Everyone - including Hebel - has to follow Wikipedia policies, and blanking parts of the article without justification isn't acceptable. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 15:27, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Just as an update, I've removed the entire Products section. It's really just one huge advertisement and serves little more than to prove that Digital Juice releases products. If users want to see their product lines, they can go to the company's website. I've taken off some of the warnings on it as well. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 15:47, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Various changes
Sigh. Sorry to have to do this, but I'm going to remove most of this edit, mostly on the grounds of inappropriate sourcing. I'll break it down:
 * http://www.rediff.com/getahead/2004/dec/20iycu2.htm - This page is a job listing. It's not reliable, as it technically could have been added by anyone. There's also nothing on there that says that the company moved to India then, only that there's some entity in India named "Digital Juice" that's hiring at that point in time.
 * http://www.linkedin.com/pub/greg-jobes/4/388/b27 - LinkedIn is not a reliable source. This issue has been discussed before, but basically it fails WP:V because there's no way to confirm that that text is true. It mostly falls in the jurisdiction of WP:SPS as well.

As a side note, I'm not particularly happy with http://www.sunbiz.org/COR/2007/1024/70279107.tif as it's a primary source, but I guess it'll do. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 20:12, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No need to apologize and thanks for your time. I am learning a lot. I did not know that primary sources were not preferred which is interesting.DJCEO (talk) 23:29, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

HelloAnnyong, please go back and look at all changes by DJCEO over the past 1 year and you will see this person clearly is an ex-employee with an ax to grind who is biased and extremely prejudiced. Almost every change this person makes is in regards to Digital Juice creating the impression that all products and content are created or made in India or that Digital Juice has downsized. Despite the fact that the relevance, even if true, is suspect, the fact is there is no way to verify this and hence cannot be included on Wikipedia unless it can be. A simple Google search reveals that the company in India has a similar name, Digital Juice Animations Private Limited, but there is no indication in any articles as to what is made there or that the ownership is even the same. Checks and Balances (talk) 12:26, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * First, it's clear to me that both of you are somehow involved with this company and therefore pose some form of conflict of interest, so I'm not going to take one side or the other. According to the Digital Juice site, their actual address is in Lake Mary, FL. If there are two companies that both use the name Digital Juice, well, that makes this all the more difficult. This article doesn't definitively say that the Digital Juice in Bangalore is the one in this article. DJCEO, your thoughts? —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 15:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Digital Juice and Digital Juice Animations and Digital Juice Animations Pvt Ltd and Creative Genius and so on are all the same company and for Checks and Balances to imply otherwise is deceitful. Here is another job listing that proves this http://bangalore.olx.in/read-full-article-on-software-engineer-iid-33959193.
 * Checks and Balances and I both know that nearly all of digital juices products are proudly created in India by hard working software engineers animator hardware people and almost everything. For him to delete any references to Bangalore at all is deceitful. This wikipedia article is inaccurate and deceitful if it does not mention Bangalore and there is no history of the company in 18 years. Write a neutral sentence recognizing Bangalores contributions and I will not dispute it. — DJCEO (talk) 16:50, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * To be quite honest with you, that comment really shows your point of view. You clearly have an axe to grind regarding this company, and this really isn't the place to do that. This article isn't meant to be a way for you to get your comeuppance regarding your former or present affiliation with the company. Having said that, it's pretty clear to me that they are both the same company and Bangalore should at least be mentioned, so I'll add that to the article. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 17:17, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm unsure what the Ballistic Pixel reference has to do with Digital Juice, Inc. Based on the the provided reference http://www.sunbiz.org/COR/2007/1024/70279107.tif there is no mention of Digital Juice. What is the relevance to the Digital Juice entry? Common ownership with Digital Juice is not in and of itself relevant. Should we also list all other corporations and properties owned by the owners of Digital Juice? Typically I've not seen this done in other wiki articles. Unless more reasons can be stated I think it should be removed. Checks and Balances (talk) 23:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The Ballistic Pixel story is one of least interesting and not important things to happen at Digital Juice in the last 13 years, but when you erase everything else we are only left with what we can document in the very weak History section. I wrote more interesting and still positive histories in the past that you erased. I might even add stuff to the Awards section that is very easy to document and reflects very well on the company but when you fight every change i am not so wanting to do that.DJCEO (talk) 01:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I "fight" changes or addition that are irrelevant or biased and those changes that don't live up to Wikipedia rules and standards.Checks and Balances (talk) 12:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, look. We have to respect the rules of referencing. If you can't provide a reliable source for a claim, it shouldn't be in the article. And if it so happens that you can't source anything in the article, then we have to take a look at whether or not the company is really notable. I think this article does assert its notability enough, but only just so.
 * As to adding in a bunch of stuff about awards: we can do that as long as it's well sourced, but we also have to respect the idea of WP:WEIGHT. That basically says that the article needs to represent the company fairly and neutrally without being too biased, POV or otherwise skewed. It seems a bit strange to me that a company could win a whole bunch of awards without having any other information on them that could be added to the article. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 14:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The company has won a bunch of awards, including Emmy Awards, and it is very easy to document I am just not motivated to do it. It is not a very neutral article if it says "In 1992 David Hebel created Digital Juice. Then in 2006 they won a bunch of awards." Thank you for your third opinion and I have learned a lot and it was fun to learn on a not so notable article that only the three of us are reading. — DJCEO (talk) 00:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

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