Talk:Dijon/Archive 1

Photos
I have some photos at http://dheera.net/photos/thumb.php?q=europe2005/dijon if someone thinks this is appropriate for the External Links.

Flemish roofs??
The Wine section has some of the writer's personal opinions in it ('superb', 'equisite', 'some of the best').

But the sentence that I was really wondering about, is similar to Flemish roofs.

I am Flemish, and have never heard of such a thing. Can someone add a reference to this? I might be the one misinformed here.

Arc de Triomphe
The Porte Guillaume is not an "Arc de Triomphe".

Sister Cities
There are no references to any sister/twin cities Dijon may have. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.6.112 (talk) 20:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Mustard
Are the mustard references necessary?Adam Wang 01:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Dijon mustard is famous, though its importance should not be overplayed (Dijon is a city, not a tiny village depending on one industry). David.Monniaux 05:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

History - Kelly??
Where has all this nonsense about Kelly come from?? ( I'm Not Sure Dude )

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:03, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Allie's History
Allie is Cool :) 2.16.09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.199.35.70 (talk) 21:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Liberated
One can take NPOV too far. The recapturing of a city by the forces of its own, democratic, country and that country's allies, from the forces of a foreign, fascist, occupier, is liberation - and would be even if "liberation" was not the word universally used of the events concerned, which it is. seglea (talk) 21:39, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Arbitrary "restaurants" and "notable people"
I've noticed two sections where the information given is quite arbitrary, "restaurants" and "notable people".

Concerning the restaurants, Dijon has two world-class Michelin-starred restaurants; neither is mentioned. Instead people have apparently given publicity bumps to establishments they like (or own?).

The list of notable people is completely arbitrary, even including people who have very little connection to Dijon. Otherwise, several people mentioned are relatively minor players in their field - be it art, music or sports - while there are other Dijon personalities of greater fame and accomplishment. The list is quite different from the French page.

Does Wikipedia have guidelines concerning these matters?

Should I take responsibility for proposing a revision? Are there people following this page on a longterm basis?

David (longtime resident of Dijon)

82.224.103.123 (talk) 22:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * David, Wikipedia does indeed have guidelines on such matters (you could start at Notability). If what you say is accurate, then current content breaches several well-known guidelines and you would be doing a service by putting it right.  Other things equal, the French page is likely to be better informed than the English page, and would be a good guide to what should be included, though obviously someone from an English-speaking country with a relatively minor connection to Dijon might be worth mentioning here but not on the French page.  For restaurants and other commercial institutions, giving external evidence of notability (e.g. Michelin stars) is always a good plan; for individuals, whether or not they have a Wikipedia page is a good initial criterion.
 * To find out whether there are people keeping an eye on the page, try the History tab - especially for people who take the time to revert silly edits.
 * Finally, if you do feel like taking the initiative on this page, it would be a good idea to get a user id on the English-language Wikipedia. And thank you for following good practice by raising a query on this page before taking drastic action.
 * seglea (talk) 13:17, 4 January 2010 (UTC) (occasional visitor to Dijon)

Seglea, Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into the guidelines.

There are several other points in the article that are at best "innocent". For example calling Dijon "Commune of Dijon" is perhaps an attempt at over-correction. "Commune" is already a somewhat technical term - and ambiguous - in French, but in English it conveys no real information, and can be misleading. While the city itself sometimes uses the word "commune" on its French site, its principle denomination is Ville de Dijon, which quite reasonably translates to City of Dijon. Using "commune" on the English page suggests that there is a difference in meaning between commune and city in this specific context, which is not the case.

There are many other innocent "errors" of this sort.

Concerning "notability", it seems to me that inclusion on the Dijon page of a person implies that this person has a significant relationship to Dijon, and furthermore, for example if the person is an artist, that the person would be among the foremost artists associated with Dijon.

Obviously, the inclusion of "Premena'th Pascal Wilson/Clere (b. 1962), author, artist, teacher, and healer", whose web presence consists of her being mentioned on the various international language pages on Dijon, but basically nowhere else, is dubious at best.

I well take your point that the English page might include things that are less consequental for the French. For example that some classics of English language literature were first published in Dijon (Ernest Hemingway's first book, James Joyce's Ulysses, etc), or that Henry James and Henry Miller wrote about Dijon, would probably interest English readers more than French. Though I'm not sure they are more than curiosities, perhaps not meriting mention on a Dijon page?

Even if M.F.K. Fisher's book - almost completely about Dijon - is mentioned. (Unfortunately the description of the book, which is more autobiographic than gastronomic, is misleading.)

David

82.224.103.123 (talk) 14:31, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

corrections 11 January 2010
I've made several relatively small corrections. If you have any questions about the motivation for individual changes, I'll be happy to answer. To fully explain and justify them all would take many pages, and I am confortable that they are warranted. Hopefully I haven't made any stupid clerical mistakes.

In the coming days/weeks, besides rereading in general for style and clarity, I will offer a corrected and enlarged "History" section, and will redo the "Restaurant" section to give it some neutrality and sourcing.

I am an American, but have had a Dijon residence for the last 25 years. I have a library with over 1000 books concerning Dijon and its region, reflecting my interest in local history, institutions, architecture and art.

I am happy to hear any criticism and feedback. If anyone else wants to collaborate in improving the Dijon article, I would love to hear from you.

DavytheFatBoy (talk) 15:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Restaurants
After referring to other Wikipedia City pages, and not finding lists of restaurants, and after considering that while fine dining is available in Dijon, any "verifiable" list of restaurants would be limited to award-winning, and therefore expensive, restaurants - or would simply become a list of individual favorites, I think it is best to eliminate the section. No Dijon restaurant has any particular historic signification, and I see no other reasons for an encyclopedia entry. People looking for guidebook type information will have no difficulty finding very extensive lists on the net or in print.

DavytheFatBoy (talk) 16:19, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems like a good plan to me. The right place for a list of restaurants is on Wikitravel.  And thanks for the work you are doing on this page.  seglea (talk) 20:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I've reworked the food and drink section today. It is not definitive, but I think it improves the neutrality and adds some moderately useful information.--DavytheFatBoy (talk) 13:33, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Henry Darcy, emminent engineer and father Darcy Equation (soil water movement), is native of Dijon
Hi. I use Wikipedia often as a quick source of information, but this is the first time I've got on. Excuse any protocol mistakes I may have.

I did not see any mention of Henry Darcy, a native of Dijon and is buried there. He is father to the Darcy Equation, which describes how water moves through media. The astute concept has been used by many other scientists to describe the physics of heat transfer, electity, etc. He also is the inventor, or advanced the design, of the pitot tube which measures water and air velocity (every wondered how a pilot in a plane knew his air speed?). Additionally, the Darcy-Weisbach Equation is named after him.

What I think is especially notable about him re:Dijon was that he designed its water system in the mid-nineteenth century that gave Dijon its first safe drinking water. I believe only Rome's system surpassed it at the time. It was during this process he carried out the experiments that led to the Darcy Equation. He was a concerned citizen engineer who, like many genuises, was short lived. He realized his work on the water system aided the common man (and his animals as he said). Though not extremely rich he took little salary for the engineering work he did.

As a minor point of interest, during my PhD oral exams I was asked to describe the Darcy Equation.

Joe Henggeler University of Missouri — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoeHenggeler (talk • contribs) 08:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)