Talk:Dilazak/Archive 1

Comment
This article is severely incoherent, and lacks neutrality. --Geracudd 01:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Answers of your Questions
As you have raised 4 questions in your talk page dated 10 July 2012. So the answers are as under.

1. Strange so strange, are your here to compose the history of afghans? There are a lot of references about 'dilzak'. As you ask for just one reference, so please see 'Tawarikh Hafiz Rahmat Khani, Urdu order and footnotes by Roshan Khan, Pashto Academy, University of Peshawar. And please keep it in mind that history always needs reliability not language.

2. My book is based on reliable sources and you have already accepted my references for your particular page (i.e. the references of Akhund Darweza(persian), Qazi abdul Haleem Asar(pashto) and Mahbub Ahmad khan Karlani, although you not know Persian and Pashto). Using the word "concocted", first you should have proper checkup from a physician for your psychic problems.

3. As you accept that my blog has little substance. But unfortunately your blog is totally based on false stories and fake tours. Anyhow as a core member of "dilzak welfare society" I will raise my concerns about your jealous attitude with two other core colleagues.

4. I think this indicates your ignorance. There are a lot of Pashtun women, whom brave character is the part of Pashtun history, such as bibi mubaraka, mother of ahdad roshani, Nazo Tokhi (Nazo Anaa), Zarghona Anaa, and Malalai of Maiwand. Nazo Anaa was a prominent 17th century Pashto poet and an educated Pashtun woman who eventually became the "Mother of Afghan Nationalism" after gaining authority through her poetry and upholding of the Pashtunwali code. Her cause was picked up in the early 18th century by Zarghona Anaa, the mother of Ahmad Shah Durrani. All the Pashtun scholars feel proud on the brave character of shah borey. As you asked for English reference so the great wali ullah khan had dedicated his book to shah borey.Asarjan123 (talk) 08:48, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Repeated edits by Asarjan
This is with reference to your repeated edit of this particular page. Your edits have following drawbacks, due to which you are requested not to edit this page time and again:- 1.  You are including a name for 'The Dilazak' tribe of Afghans with your own concocted word 'Dilzak'. Please provide a single reference to your edit. Never in the past in any history book has ‘The Dilazak’ ever been mentioned as 'The Dilzak'. Refer to any history book written in English language for a proof. 2.  You are giving reference to a book which has been written by yourself, has no literary authenticity and in which a no of points can be easily proven wrong and concocted. If you want to be famous, try some other way. 3.  You are including reference to your blog which has little substance to help readers explore further about Dilazaks. Instead it displays your own picture. Please do not use wiki for your own advertisement. 4.  Afghans do not discuss their ladies and you are time and again trying to highlight 'Shah Borey' which is against atticates. People (The Dilazaks) all over the world have given 'thumbs down' to this act of yours. If you want I can copy one email received from UK just few days back as an example. Please give referrence of an English book, not an Urdu book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dilazak1 (talk • contribs) 06:49, 10 July 2012 (UTC) Dilazak1 06:08, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

My Comments on Your Article
I believe the article needs a drastic improvement, this including it's neutrality. You describe the "tragedy" of the tribe rather than simply stating what happened. Thank you for your contributions. --Geracudd 02:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I see few readers, raising objection on autheticity of this article, well they are justified. I am working on my documentary on The Dilazak along with a book on this valorous tribe like all other Afghan tribes, to whom I appreciate a lot. I shall make an endeavor to place a few dozen references very soon from few dozen historical works to satisfy readers of this article, indeed a very very precise one. I would also request The Dilazaks to please assist me in knowing their locations and family histories. I have to also write on some other castes and tribes like The Rajputs, The Jats, The Awan and few important Afghan Tribes like The Yousafzae, The Khattaks, The Afridis, The Mohmands, The Bangash, The Tanolis, The Tarin and The Utmanzae etc, to name a few. I shall request the members of these caste and tribes to help me out by giving some digital material and important links to history sites etc. Let the world know through a modern day information treasure like Wikipedia about you. Let them understand us and our history. Understanding each other solves so many problems. Thank for your patience. dilazak1 at yahoo, gmail & hotmail TheDilazak (talk) 13:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

how to put pictures and movie clips in my article?
Can somebody guide me as to how to put media items in an article? I shall be thankful. Dilazak1 (talk) 10:35, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Click here for information on how to place images in an article. [ roux  ] [ x ] was prince of canada 10:42, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

March 2010 reverts with Dilazak1
User Dilazak1 has reverted this article to his earlier version several times, including twice this month. I submit that said version is not Wikipedia appropriate, does not include the tags which the article needs, is not properly categorized, as is generally not an acceptable alternative to the wikified version which I and other editors have worked to partially improve. I request that editors consider those issues before reverting to Dilazak1's version, and if they feel that Dilazak1's version is more accurate and suitable, that they explain such here on Discussion, or else take the page to Arbitration. MatthewVanitas (talk) 07:11, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Dear Matthew Vanitas
Thanks for guiding me to talk page, had not much of the clue to it. These are few reasons that compelled me to revert to original page. The very first sentence is so much wrong that it changes the whole picture. It is as somebody would say that 'The Franks were Romans or The Britain and The Saxons were one and the same thing' or The Germanic People decended from The Mongols. No Dilazak claims to be or has ever claimed of its Hindic Origin. Afghans and Hindic people are totally two different people. The reference you gave is from a book which has numerous errors in it and mind you that this book has totally different purpose. It is not a thorough research work and does not carry any authentication. Can you tell me the reference or authority from which this decision of Hindic origin has been taken? In fact, I am, though a Dilazak myself, doing a research on my tribe along with a number of other tribes including Afghan and Non-Afghan Tribes. I assure you that in spite of the desire of some of my people to invent something, I am going to give a true, authenticated and unbiased history. I want to leave a thing which carries some authority and not just another cock and bull story. The present amendments are like I write your history and then commit mistakes. The oldest record of this land in present day Afghanistan, Pakistan and India is "Memoirs of Babar" (The First King of The Mughals). Latter on we have "Tareekh-e-KhanJahani Wa Maghzan-e-Afghani" written by an Afghan Amir (Minister) of King Jahangir's Court followed by another book written by King Akbar-The Great (Aaeen-e-Akbari or the Law of Akbar). These are the basic books from which every writer later in the History took guidance, some changed few words and some even did not bother to do that even. When the Dilazak met tragedies in 'one single century' and lost 'The Peshawar Valley', they were too downtrodden to ward off any twisting of history by so called writers. A number of books were written by the opponents of the Dilazak concocting baseless stories that is why most of these books are not referred by the later writers. However, when British came to India and then into Peshawar valley, they had multiple problems like they wanted to please the then ruling tribes of Peshawar plain and they had, for reference, the same books produced by the anti-Dilazak people. The books I referred were yet not translated for the consumption of the British. The British could not speak Pashto and certainly were aliens in such a ferocious tribe based civilization. If you want I can give you excerpts from the preface of few English books in which the writers have clearly mentioned their inability to do detailed or even some research. Amongst the English people of that time 'Sir Olaf Caroe" was the only person who stayed for quite some time in 'North West Frontier Province' of the then 'British Indian Empire'. He wrote a very detailed account of Afghan Tribes in his book 'The Pathans". Except the few books, I mentioned earlier, his is the only book which has never been contested. So many writers and 'Gazetteer makers' have borrowed his words a number of times. So in nut shell, no body of any authoritative work including the people you are talking about has ever said that The Dilazak is of Hindi Origin. If that is true then every Afghan is of Hindic origin and certainly that would be a joke. I have put this page to give very basic information about this tribe to anybody in search of some information regarding this tribe and that is why I have calculated each and every sentence so that correct and authenticated information is given to the reader. On somebody's observation, I gave just few references out of 300+ books and numerous other materials under my study. I just don't want it to be a 'Discussion for the sake of discussion' battle field. Obviously there are always other views but one should prove these with some authority. To give a reference from a book written without due research is wrong and I really don't know who did that? This would be injustice with a people of over 2 million population (Estimated) world over. You have removed link to my blog which I placed as external link for readers. I would request if you could help me adjust this in a suitable way. One more thing, somebody has made small changes changing the whole meaning and making a true statement to become a false statement, e.g. Jahangir (The King) ordered his General, Zain Khan Koka to sort out The Dilazak while he was on his way to Kabul and not after visiting Kabul. This is stated by himself in his book 'Tozk-e Jahangiri' or 'Memoirs of Jahangir'. Its original copy exists. He had left a large part of his army because according to Jahangir, Kabul Valley was too small to take all of his soldiers, and again it is said by him, the Jahangir.

Please put my original article as it was unless you want to ask something else. Regards Dilazak1 (talk) 17:43, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Reply (sectioning for clarity of long reply)

 * Greetings, I appreciate your communicating here on the talk-page. I am not taking one stance or another regarding your views on Dilazak Pashtun history.  It is entirely possible that you are entirely correct regarding the historical issues you raise.  However, setting all that aside, the version of the page you wish to revert to is completely unacceptable in tone and format, and extremely confusing to read.  For example:


 * In a neutral and objective work, it is not appropriate to use subjective phrases such as any of the following:
 * Afghans are a proud and brave people
 * Honourable Mr Karraan
 * The story of the Dilazak did not end here.
 * have the unique honour of being


 * The version your prefer fails to use practically any of the conventions of Wikipedia:
 * The title term does not appear in bold at the beginning of the first sentence
 * The text is not divided into clear sub-sections
 * It links to external links rather than using a proper reference
 * It bolds terms to emphasize importance, which is not WP format
 * It has a "title" which is completely unnecessary since the article is titled
 * The footnotes are in all capitals and very difficult to read, with no links to online texts (preferred when available)
 * The article completely lacks wikilinks to related terms
 * The article does not fall within any category, but has a non-functioning attempt to use categories at the bottom: "Template:Catagoty:Afghan History"
 * You self-promote a blog at the very top of the page, whereas the current version does indeed have a link to your blog, but in the appropriate section at the end of the article.


 * Your interest in contributing to Wikipedia is appreciated, but you need to follow Wikipedia conventions in order to make your contributions helpful to readers. I suggest you start with the current article and remove or modify sections which you know to be incorrect.  Please remember to use the "Edit summary" at the base of the editing window to explain the changes you are making, and please do not remove footnoted text without replacing it with footnoted text with a more reputable reference.  I look forward to seeing this article improve as you and other persons interested in Pashtun history continue to come to Wikipedia. MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Hello Again
Dear Matthew Vanitas, Thanks for improving the layout of this page. I am trying to understand and improve the page as you observed. How can I give internal referrences? I just had a brain wave- Can I put scanned pages with a picture of the cover for all books, I gave referrences to- May be on a blog page? Sorry for bothering you. I am managing two large official web sites myself but wikipedia requires special editing procedure and I am not finding time to learn all that. Thanks Dilazak1 (talk) 17:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)