Talk:Dion Fortune

Objectivity
Please explain how a group called WikiProject Occult can be objective in spreading information about occult related topics. Your clear bias disturbs me because I don't believe that you will provide any objective material or discussion to Wikipedia. It also appears, in the Discussion history, that a Mr. Morgan Leigh is highly intolerant of different Points of View and insists on including information from a "book" about the so-called Magical Battle of Britain. [RomoCop]
 * In the same way that a group called, say, "WikiProject Kentucky" can be objective in writing and editing articles about the Commonwealth south of the Ohio River, west of Virginia, and north of Tennessee. That people have practiced occultism and belonged to occult orders is a verifiable historical fact. Whether or not their activities had any result whatsoever does not alter the basic fact that this is an aspect of human culture, contrasting with mainstream or exoteric social institutions, in which people find, and have found, ideas meaningful to and informative of their experience of their world. 208.102.87.91 (talk) 06:40, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

British/English/Welsh
I have changed the category back to British because that is the best explanation. Although Fortune was born in Wales, she was not Welsh. She was descended from mostly English stock but did live and work in many parts of Britain. Because of these links to several parts of the British Isles I think it is best to keep her in the British category.

Morgan Leigh 05:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe these categories are done by nativity. That is, their place of birth, not their racial heritage. The latter would be impossible. If she was born in Wales, then Welsh occult writers is the correct placement. &mdash;Hanuman Das 03:33, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Hanuman, I do see your point. Though I feel in this case it would be misleading, as most people know her as English/British and many do not know she was born in Wales. As a result of this they may not be able to locate her if she was only listed in the Welsh category. Can we perhaps have her in both the Welsh and the British categories?
 * Morgan Leigh 01:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Family motto or Golden Dawn motto?
I was under the impression that Deo, non Fortuna was her Golden Dawn motto (the name by which she was known in Alpha and Omega and Stella Matutina). I haven't got my books here, so I can't give a ref right now... Is the statement about her family motto wrong? Or did her GD motto come from her family motto? Or am I entirely wrong? Fuzzypeg ☻ 04:41, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

You are correct. The motto was the one she selected when she joined Stella Matutina. Adistius 19:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It is also correct that it was the Firth familly motto. I have added the appropriate reference ot the page. Morgan Leigh 05:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed
I have removed this; "She also wrote books on spirituality, including "Mystical Meditations on the Christian Collects" " because, almost all her books are on spirituality so this sentence is strange and it seems to only exist to mention this one book, which is newly published and is not typical of her work. I note that the only edits by the IP which added this info are edits in which books by Ishtar Publishing are added to pages. Morgan Leigh 00:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

London Group
I don't know much about the London Group, but I did a quick search and discovered some sources for the information recently removed. I've added it back, with those references. Cheers, Fuzzypeg★ 02:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Dubious Source for Inclusion of "Magical Battle of Britain"
The original source for the claim that Dion Fortune participated in the "Magical Battle of Britain" is a book written by Dion Fortune. After the claim, there is conjecture about how the "Magical Battle of Britain" may have contributed to her death. Other books are cited, yet those books are nothing more than reiteration of a dubious claim.

The source is a catch-22; nothing more than the self-promoting claims of someone who wanted to sell books. Adding the unverifiable claim about a "Magical Battle of Britain" is a disservice to users of Wikipedia. You may as well allow anyone who claims to have seen Elvis or UFOs to write an article about themselves. And then write books about people who write books, in which they claim to have seen Elvis and UFOs.

The two sections "Writing" and "Later Magical Career" should be merged as, "Books and Other Writings." Suggesting that her "career" was actually "magical" is subversive bias, and should be left to the discernment of the reader.24.23.171.236 (talk)
 * Certainly a more neutral term can be found, but her writing was one aspect of her work. Organizing and administering a group that provided lectures and instruction and conducted cermonies intended to have particular results was another, one she is known to have performed for a good portion of her life. 74.83.14.59 (talk) 13:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but most of what she taught was based on what she wrote. It's a catch-22.--or, a self-fulfilling prophecy.67.169.25.132 (talk) 01:28, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

If you're looking for a citeable secondary source to simply establish that Fortune organized some kind of occult meditation group during the war and called it the "magical" battle of britain, this would work. - LuckyLouie (talk) 01:54, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Why I Re-added the word "purported" before "attempt" in the line about the Magical Battle of Britain
I have long had concerns about pages on "occult" figures; namely, because the followers of "occult" people tend to be more active in trying to normalize their favorite "occult" figure.

But until there can be conclusive proof on the power of "magic" or "psychic" ability, occult figures must be treated with the same scrutiny that religious are treated.

In the same way that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is criticized because of variations in the gospels, or that Christ was merely propaganda promoted by Paul--it is only fair to scrutinize this so-called "Magical Battle of Britain," as propaganda by occultists who had a bad image from being lumped in with Hitler, but also to sell books.

After all, many in the British military attributed the victory in the Battle of Britain to God. But can anyone prove that God intervened? Would it not be the same if I produced recordings of people praying during the Battle of Britain?

They say that it happened; they even have "recordings"--but the time and place those recordings were made cannot be verified. If occultists want to believe that the "Magical Battle of Britain" happened, then so be it. That is their right. But readers have the right to objectively written material.67.169.25.132 (talk) 23:46, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Changes Made
I added the two sections "Teaching career" and "Magical Battle of Britain," because the page read like a stream-of-consciousness that rambled between topics about Fortune's books, teaching career, the Fraternity of the Inner Light, and a dubious, "Magical Battle of Britain."

I moved some paragraphs into the section "Books and other writings," as those paragraphs were related to that subject.

It is difficult to write a coherent narrative about a person whose career can only be qualified through what she wrote or what she taught--and yet, it cannot be qualified that those writings and teachings were anything real or substantive.67.169.25.132 (talk) 00:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Cause of Death
In Ithell Colquhoun's, Sword of Wisdom, Dion Forune's death was from a dental infection. Colquhoun's account is taken from an associate of Fortune's, a dentist, who examined her oral cavity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:8821:0:D88:7821:B50E:9BF3 (talk) 23:09, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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