Talk:Diorama (Silverchair album)/Archive 1

Useful links
http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_silverchair/

http://www.abc.net.au/rollercoaster/therap/reviews/s540962.htm

http://www.silverchair.nu/sc_nu/interviews/showinterviews.php?id=2

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,26278,23100563-5013892,00.html

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/2004/best_albums/2002.htm

dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 10:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

GA nom on hold

 * "Diorama saw Silverchair work with a new producer." That is kind of a short, lousy sentence. Any way you could shape it up?
 * Reworded. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O)
 * "decided that he needed "who understood where he wanted to go."" Add "someone" between needed and who understood
 * Yep, missed that when typing too fast :s dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "Johns initially wrote eight songs, which he later deleted, as they were too similar to Neon Ballroom." Could you diouble up the source and add it after this? Maby have "as he thought they were too similar to Neon Ballroom."
 * Done. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Rob Woolf and Michele Rose Are these notable?
 * Doubt it; links removed. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Gimmee a note on my talk page when you are done. Is this going to FAC eventually? Burningclean [speak]  19:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * FAC: I sure hope so! dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Shibby! Burningclean  [speak]  03:39, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Self-review
Will strike as I get through them. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:48, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "co-produce for the first time, alongside David Bottrill." - "producer David Bottrill"
 * "The album was written primarily by Johns, on piano, after the band took a 12-month-break." - make note of Neon Ballroom here...
 * "music typical of the band's earlier work." - the band's --> their
 * "charted on the ARIA Singles Chart" - charted --> appeared
 * "Diorama was successful and moderately well received." - successful in terms of $/sales
 * "It would go on to be certified triple-platinum by ARIA." - use full name
 * "Diorama won ARIA Awards in 2002," - how many (same for 2003)
 * Check naming on refs 13/16
 * Try and find something other than the RollerCoaster review
 * Ref 19; try and find anything else - found the original
 * Check all non-URL refs to see if there's any more info (publisher/author/date) available
 * "that he intended for Diorama to be" - didn't intend so much as thought it would be...
 * "and taking the role of co-producer" - kinda sounds like Bottrill took this roll; clarify
 * "too similar to Neon Ballroom." - mention what NB was
 * "so as to regain his passion in music" --> "so as to regain his passion in music, which had diminished leading up to the band's post-Neon Ballroom break"
 * "Much of the album was written by Johns on piano, a technique he developed while the band was on break after Neon Ballroom. He taught himself how to play the piano for the purpose of songwriting, most of which was done on his baby grand piano." - very very choppy
 * "This had a noted effect on the sound of the album; Johns noticed" - noted/noticed...
 * Add audio - The heavy guitar effects in "The Greatest View" were produced by Johns using a "70s Rickenbaker 12-string through a 100 watt Soldano 2x12 combo" ((Get wlinks)), and the song responded to the media "watching over" Johns.
 * "made Johns consider the collaborative experience "mind-blowing"." - check on overuse of "Johns"...
 * "Johns' condition resulted" --> "However, his condition resulted in"
 * "The song was first written in 2000, and announced by Chris Joannou in February 2000" --> "the song was first announced by Chris Joannou in February 2000, shortly after being written."
 * "The song reached #24 on its" - on --> during (or similar) (nah...)
 * "which took Johns nine hours to write on a sleepless night." - ref
 * "by Van Dyke Parks (Beach Boys, U2)" - rmv brackets; do those at first mention
 * "Website readers gave the album an average of 89%" --> "47 website users rated the album 8.9 out of 10." (removed per below)
 * May wish to quote some other reviewers via Metacritic
 * "Rosie Beaton placed it third, and Gaby Brown placed it fifth" - say who these guys are (eg. while radio station stuff Rosie...)
 * Add Bottrill to personnel per Young Modern (producers)
 * Clean up track listing. Times from my version;
 * One Way Mule; 4:15
 * Too Much of Not Enough; 4:45
 * After All These Years; 5:01
 * Total; 52:24 - using auscharts values
 * Add Charts & See also sections per Young Modern

A few thoughts...
As requested, here are a few thoughts on this article:

Overall, I feel that it's a pretty well written articles, with no major problems that I can see. Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC).
 * The "Response" section concentrates on positive reviews of the album. While in general it seems obvious that the album was well received, was there any negative criticism of the album from any sources?  I find it hard to believe that it found universal acclaim.
 * Some of the mags listed at Metacritic are more negative, if I can access them. Otherwise, I'll check some other sources. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 07:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Found a 3/10 from NME! dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 08:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The rating that a handful of people gave the album on some website (Metacritic) is not really all that important or relevant, I feel.
 * Removed the reader scores mention. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 07:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "Album and Single Releases" section appears to concentrate on sales and the like in Australia. How was the album and its singles received internationally, especially given Silverchair's big success in the USA with earlier albums.
 * I've added all the international info I have available... Will look more. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 07:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 07:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Some suggestions
Giggy asked me over IRC to give this a review, here are some thoughts: Hitting save now, more to follow. delldot on a public computer  talk  06:54, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Careful with vague use of 'this', as with '...needed a producer who would understand this.' Even 'this fact' or 'this situation' or whatnot would be better.
 * "this statement" added. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know if the quote "who understood where he wanted to go" really adds anything. It's too vague to really mean anything.  Also, wouldn't it be "who understood where [he] wanted to go," assuming we're quoting the guy talking about himself?
 * De-quoted. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "Johns initially wrote eight songs, only to delete them all later..." Is that something people say? To delete a song?  Never heard that before.
 * Source: Reworded. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "The album's title referred to 'a world within a world'" — This is kind of a non-sequitur, it feels kind of stuck in here. The rest of the paragraph is about the instruments and musical style.
 * Moved to next paragraph. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In the next paragraph, half of it is about the perceived inspiration for the songs, half is about who he worked with. Maybe the second half of the paragraph should go first.  For example, you could use the second-to-last sentence, which is about the musical style, as a transition from the last paragraph.  The then-girlfriend part should probably be a separate paragraph (though you hate to have short paragraphs).
 * I moved the second half up, and left the rest of it there...it's not a kinda short inspiration-related paragraph. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

More: More in a bit. delldot on a public computer  talk  07:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Why is it sometimes '#1' and sometimes 'number one'?
 * Fixed. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have to say it 'was highly successful', when you're about to illustrate all the ways it was successful? Seems redundant and in violation of "show don't tell".  Also, the sentence about strong guitars doesn't really fit in with the rest of the paragraph.
 * Both things removed. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think "...as a response to the media 'always watching me in different way'" should be as a response to the media "always watching [him] in different way."
 * Done. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought you only had to wikilink dates if they're month day year; I thought month day and month year could be left unlinked.
 * Month day has to be (it's the day and month that are changed by prefs...more at WP:DATE I think...the year doesn't matter), but yeah, month year isn't necessary. Removed where I could see it. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I attacked some of the passive voice, but there's still a lot left. (Lots and lots!  Eeeek!)
 * I suck at that sort of thing, but I'll try and fix some... dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Would it be "contained a 'MTV-approved hook'", or "an 'MTV-approved hook'"?
 * Fixed. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

More:
 * This sentence needs fixing: "Torreano's criticism was reserved for some songs on the album; "Without You"'s apparent Goo-Goo Dolls influences were described as "an unwelcome twist", while "One Way Mule" saw the band 'reverting back to their grunge sound'."—passive voice, "some songs" (vague, uninformative), the awkward "Without You"'s (surely the quotes should go around the whole word?)
 * Done and done. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "However, due to Johns suffering from reactive arthritis..." this whole sentence sounds awkward to me.
 * Remember the fun rewordings on the Silverchair article in relation to this stuff? :) Reworded. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So and so "commented on Silverchair's new maturity on the album" sounds like the article is calling it fact that the album is mature. You'd have to say something like "called the album mature" or something.
 * Eek! Fixed. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The "Charts and certifications" section and subsequent sections with just tables come on kind of abruptly. How about a sentence or two at the beginning of the "Charts and certifications" section to introduce it and prepare the reader for the tables?  Kind of explain what they're about to see. Similarly, I don't really like the Personnel section that's just a bulleted list.
 * Added some blurbs. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems like you could work both see also links into the text and do away with the pesky see also section.
 * Hmm, no, that's the standard practice with those sections... dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * There are only a few, large sections. Maybe it could stand to be divided into subsections.
 * Any suggestions on how? I dunno... dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 03:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wellll... 'Recording and production' could be broken into the writing of the songs (including the inspiration, etc.) and the actual production (with recording, performance, etc.) The 'Album and single releases' could be broken up by song, but it'd probably make the sections too small until you had more info on each one.  I guess the reception section could be broken down into positive and negative, but that would be kinda lame.   delldot on a public computer   talk  04:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm...I dunno, I like it this way. Is there really a major problem on your end with it? dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 04:29, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, it's fine.  delldot on a public computer   talk  06:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

That's all the nitpicking I have for you tonight! delldot on a public computer  talk  08:34, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Another thing I noticed: shouldn't "...who called it 'Gorgeously produced" be "...who called it '[g]orgeously produced"? delldot on a public computer   talk  04:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 04:29, 5 May 2008 (UTC)