Talk:Dir (clan)

Untitled
The title of this page is incorrect. 'Dir' is a clan. Title should simply be Dir. &mdash;the preceding comment is by S710 - 18:18, 5 June 2006: Please sign your posts!
 * Yes, except Dir is a disambiguation page, because the name refers to many things. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup: Dir subclans
The "Dir subclans" section is becoming unwieldy. If we can establish some threshold of notability for inclusion, then I propose we pare down the list. Otherwise, I suggest we move the list to its own article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 12:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

A very interesting and rare view about Somalia's Dir clan which has been at times ignored by historians. A major problem is the editors can't seem to agree on what to represent- the sub-clans, lineages and sub-lineages etc. I would suggest we just list the major subclans and their geographic locations.

Somali Subclans
I agree with moving all the articles about the subclans to the articles about the major clans to which they belong (Darod, Hawiye, Dir, Isaaq and the other three). Apart from the geographical distribution and famous persons there not much information.S710 16:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I have read about Somali History and when I read the wealth of information presented by this article I was very impressed! As a matter of fact, I have spoken to numerous Somali experts who work for the U.N and they have verified most of the facts presented.

It should be noted the Dir clan is a very large ethnic group who inhabit in many parts of the Horn of Africa (Kenya North, DJibouti,Ethiopia, and all over Somali). Therefore, I would suggest the artical summarize the subclans of the Dir and distribution. I personally used this information while working in Somali and have found the details very rich.

Clans or families or persons
I am curious if these are all really subclans or families or persons. What is the use of the names of all these families in an encyclopedia. It begins to look like genealogy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by S710 (talk • contribs) 17:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved text from article
The following text was included without attribution. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC) "The Biimaal ( Gaadsan, Ismiin, Da’ud and Sa’ad) are a Somali ethnic group of about 2 million people who live mainly in the province of lower Shabelle, lower Jubba, Bakool and Gedo, large numbers also live in Kenya and Ethiopia. Their language, is Somalia, is a Hamatic language; more specifically, similar to the Arabic. The Biimaal Kingdom played a major role in Somali History during the 18th and 19th centuries. Under Italian colony, Biimaal people opposed against the invaders and severely fought against Italian troops. During that time thousands Biimalis lost their life to stop invaders to touch our soil. Today, they are the most numerous ethnic group in Somalia, settling the most populated area from Mogadishu to kismayo and as mentioned above in Gedo and Bakool region. However, they are not armed, not even ready to involve in this civil war. Origins The Biimaal were originally a major clan in what is today lower Shabelle, lower Jubba, Bakool and Gedo, founded. 1400-1900 Biimaal kingdoms were having a good trading with Arabs particularly Omanian and Yemenis. In the interpretation of Biimaal name is means Bin malik, which other cajami people named him Biimaal. Some people assume that the meaning of the name is water user, which is not close to the fact because Biimal has other Arabic name as I mentioned above. At that time, the land of Biimaal was occupied by many other tribes and clans during the civil war. Daarood tribes had migrated down Jubbaland in early time when they fled from the droughts in their lands and settled Biimalis lands and because the previous Darood president they planted their roots in biimalis land. Habargidir of Hawiye subclan also decided to claim lower shabelle, trying to settling every small village, but the complication faced them was that if three hundred thousands people how you can displace two million people. That mission has failed In 1900-1907, the Italian leaders tried many times to negotiate a land deal with Bimal king. In 1905 about 2000 Bimalis and 1000 Italian soldiers were killed when they attempted to destroy these obstacles against Italian interests which caused many Italian lives before. Though many biimalis armies got killed they still dominated to protect Somali shore. After a long bloody battle, the Italian leader sleeked alliance with other Somali tribes which finally destroyed Bimalis forces."

The following text was added to the sub-clan listing, but seems better suited for the talk page. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:19, 2 March 2010 (UTC) "it is true, there is no agreement on clan and sub-clan structures and many clan linage are omitted. this one is taken from elders after longe consideration, some books wrote only Madoobe. see British somaliland last page somali clans linage illusteration." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.2.157.211 (talk • contribs) 04:38, 2 March 2010

Cleanup
This article is a mess. I did as much as I could, but since I do not know much about the subject, I had difficulty doing anything. I beleive that if someone knew a lot about the subject, they would be able to help much more. Mynameisnotpj (talk) 12:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC

What the heck?
Dir was a descendant of Irir Samaale... not some arab lol! Dirs have 99% E1b1b DNA!, not exactly Arab is it?

Some Xamars are trying to destroy our people.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.0.238 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 24 July 2011
 * Do you have a source concerning the DNA? As for what Xamars are or are not doing, this is not the forum for it: see WP:CHAT. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:55, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

As someone who belongs to the Dir clan and has in-depth understanding of the clan structure and history, this is the first I've ever heard of this 'Ram Nag' fellow that supposedly landed in Zeila. It appears that some random guy's writings from 60 years ago trumps everything ever written about the origins of the Dir clan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.94.128.163 (talk) 02:32, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Biimaal
Biamal is a Somali clan, which occupy an area from 35 km from Mogadishu south to Jilib and Kismayo, not far from border with Kenya. The Biamal fought against the Italian colonial rulers of Southern Somalia in a twenty-year war known as the Biamal Revolt, in which the Dir assassinated several Italian governors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkaCadeey (talk • contribs) 16:27, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Dabruuwe Mohamed Clan
Dabruuwe Mohamed. SUBCLANS AND FAMILY TREE The Dabruuwe clan has five major subclans, whose there mnemonics is: Rage dabruwe.Yusuf dabruuwe Weheliye dabruuwe. also dabruuwe and bimal they are brothers tree is as following: The Mathigaan or Madigaan is a sub subclan of Dabrube, the Subclan of Dabruuwe and is one of the tribes that inhabits in Ethiopia and Somaliland. Historically, the Mathigaan were mainly pastoral and farmers who separated from other Dabruuwe in nearly 400 years ago, however, the record of written documents and inherited information from ancestors is well reserved in lower shabelle. The Dabrube tribes lived in different parts of somalia and Ethiopia, but they each had their history and blood connected.Italic text — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.138.15.11 (talk) 09:03, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

About, Dabruube mohamed clan
dabruwe.Yusuf dabruuwe Weheliye dabruuwe. also dabruuwe and bimal they are brothers but dabruube are not part of bimaal, tree is as following: The Mathigaan or Madigaan is a sub subclan of Dabrube, the Subclan of Dabruuwe and is one of the tribes that inhabits in Ethiopia and Somaliland. Historically, the Mathigaan were mainly pastoral and farmers who separated from other Dabruuwe in nearly 400 years ago, however, the record of written documents and inherited information from ancestors is well reserved in lower shabelle. Also there is Sarjele Dabruube they are living in Qalalafe Ethiopia. Dabrube tribes lived in different parts of somalia and Ethiopia, but they each had their history and blood connected.Italic text — Preceding Dabruube (talk) 15:56, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Isaaq
Removed Isaaq as per academic grouping, , , , , , ,. This is also how the Isaaq themselves regard their clan .Kzl55 (talk) 20:38, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Origins section: blatant misrepresentation of sources
As the article stands now, the 'Origins' section blatantly misrepresents the reliable sources it cites:


 * The article states According to many documented sources and historians, the patriarch Samaale was the son of Irir who in turn was the Son of Hiil. However, the source (Lewis 1961/1999, p. 12) clearly shows Samaale as the father (not the son) of Irir, and here as elsewhere Samaale is clearly depicted as a legendary ancestor, a fact which the sentence just quoted tends to obscure.
 * The article states It is believed that the Somali genealogy from the line of Samaale dates back to their Cushitic ancestors 5000 YBP., referring to Lewis 1961/1999, p. 11-13. But Lewis does not mention any 'Cushitic ancestors', and instead makes it very clear that all Somali genealogies make claims to Arab origins: Ultimately all Somali genealogies go back to Arabian origins, to the Prophet's lineage of Quraysh and those of his companions. Yet they do not think of themselves as Arabs, or except in religion, as culturally Arabian. Indeed paradoxical though it may appear, in many ways Somali despise Arabs, especially those whom they meet in Somaliland as immigrant traders and merchants. Nevertheless, it is their proud pretensions to noble Arabian origins which unite all the Somali clans and lineages into one vast genealogical system. (p. 11).
 * The article states The Dir clan and the Hawiye clan trace descent specifically from Irir the son of Irir Samaale, unlike the Darood and Isaaq who ascribe their genealogy to Arabian Quraysh Banu Hashim origins through Aqiil the son of Abu Talib ibn Abd al-Muttalib, who was a cousin of the Prophet Muhammed. This is sourced inter alia to Lewis 1961/1999, p. 12, but the table in Lewis 1961/1999 clearly shows that both the Dir and the Hawiye also trace their lineage to Aqil ibn Abi Talib. In fact, as Lewis 1961/1999, p. 12, note 3 remarks, it is the Isaaq who are exceptional in this regard in that they themselves trace their descent to Ali ibn Abi Talib, through an independent genealogy involving the legendary ancestor Ishaaq bin Ahmed (who, however, supposedly married a Dir woman, which means that the Isaaq also descend matrilineally from Aqil).

On 23 February 2022, I replaced this misrepresentation of sources with a section that faithfully conveys what Ioan Lewis (one of the foremost experts in this field) has written about this subject, both in Lewis 1961/1999 pp. 11-13 as cited above and in his 1994 Blood and Bone: The Call of Kinship in Somali Society. In the days following, this was reverted several times by an edit-warring IP   and by sockpuppeteer , then on 14 March 2022 again by an IP , and finally yesterday (9 May 2022) once more by an IP. The same source-misrepresenting edit has been made several times at the Hawiye page, by ElphionAbraham socks and   , and more recently by the apparently unrelated.

I did not feel comfortable further reverting these edits without thorough explanation of why they are indeed disruptive. I will refer to this thread for any further revert. Of course, comments on what I wrote above are always welcome. Thanks, ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 09:35, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2023
192.145.172.37 (talk) 23:14, 19 May 2023 (UTC) Jiido Cali is Madahwein dir
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:57, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Edit request
They are also considered to be the oldest Somali stock to have inhabited the region.

Stock definition

Inventory of Goods: A supply of goods or materials that are kept on hand for sale or use.

Financial Capital: The capital raised by a company through the issue and subscription of shares, representing ownership in the company.

Livestock: Animals, especially cattle, kept on a farm. 209.93.44.111 (talk) 05:06, 30 December 2023 (UTC)