Talk:Disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi

Article: it:Emanuela Orlandi

 * Corresponding English-language article: (None)


 * Worth doing because: No corresponding article, obscure but possibly important information. Orlandi (the daughter of a Vatican employee) disappeared in 1983 as a teenager, and there have been some conspiracy claims about it. The Italian version is interwiki-linked from Mehmet Ali Ağca (JP2's attempted assassin), who is In The News today: Ağca implied that his case and the Orlandi case may be related.


 * Originally Requested by: --Geoffrey 02:00, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Status: Completed by User:Lacatosias. I cnannot verify the info and their are no references, but I will have it translated by today or tomorrow.  Lacatosias (talk | contribs)  06:44, 27 January 2006


 * Expanded by: kedar63 in September 2006.

Tone
The tone of this article does not seem appropriate for an encyclopedia. It reads like a play-by-play. FinnHK (talk | contribs) 04:03, 7 August 2006

No accent
In the chronology section it mentions a man with a "young voice and no accent". Unless it was an electronically generated voice it would have an accent. I'm removing this bit. Cls14 (talk) 17:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Rome: gangster entombed in a papal crypt
this oddly phrased addition was added here. this is apparently in reference to a book published by William Spear. whatever the value of this addition, it seems like it should not be in all caps. -badmachine 09:10, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * it also appears here. -badmachine 09:13, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Just FYI
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/9283407/Emanuela-Orlandi-was-kidnapped-for-sex-parties-for-Vatican-police.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.9.16.215 (talk) 22:16, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * And here is another just-in article in English -- but there are dozens on this topic in Italian newspapers right how as well: http://www.albanytribune.com/04022013-vatican-denies-that-muslims-ordered-assassination-of-pope-john-paul-ii/ Vatican Denies That Muslims Ordered Assassination Of Pope John Paul II By CNA -- (February 4, 2013) 70.36.137.192 (talk) 05:56, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Suggested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:03, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Emanuela Orlandi → Disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi – the is a WP:BIO1E article about a person who is known for having gone missing, the entire article is about her being missing 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:12, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support. As it seems almost certain that she is dead, the title doesn't really seem to matter much. The article is of course, and has to be, primarily about the disappearance, and there is very little else to say about the biography of a disappeared 15-year-old girl. I also removed a prod from this article as this article is really about the criminal case, and that case is notable beyond reasonable doubt. Hans Adler 16:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. I just went through the article separating the three theories of her disappearance into sub-heads. I did not write anything, just formatted the chronology, Sorry, i do not have time to add proper refs to the sections where they are missing. 70.36.137.192 (talk) 02:55, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. Reflects the relative importance and the content of the article, which is definitely not a bio. --  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 03:59, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. This is predominantly about the event, there is not evidence suggesting notability to support a full biography.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:17, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Vatican citizen?
I didn't know the Vatican had any citizens. How does that happen? —Tamfang (talk) 04:52, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * You can follow this link to the article on Vatican City and read the article's section on Citizenship, or take this quick link to that section . Vatican City is recognized as a State.  That matter too is covered in the article.  Best wishes.  I hope this is helpful to you. LiPollis (talk) 11:26, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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Finding of skeletal remains October 2018
Just recently, skeletal remains have been found that have been speculated to belong to the either the missing Emanuela Orlandi or Mirella Gregori, or potentially even both cases; "''The family of a teenager who went missing in Italy in 1983 has called on the Vatican to provide more details on the discovery of human remains in one of its properties in Rome.

''Fragments of human bone were found during restoration work on the property next to the diplomatic office of the Holy See in Rome in what could be a breakthrough for police investigating one of Italy’s darkest mysteries.  Italian media have speculated that the discovery could shed light on the fate of one or possibly two teenagers who went missing in the 1980s.  “We will ask Rome prosecutors and the Holy See how the bones were found and why their discovery has been linked to the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi or Mirella Gregori,” the Orlandis’ family lawyer, Laura Sgrò, told the media." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/31/remains-found-in-vatican-property-spark-hopes-of-solving-35-year-mystery

This may be of interest for the article, as one theory listed was Vatican-related. Okama-San (talk) 13:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Title?
Per Wikipedia conventions, shouldn't the title of this simply be "Emanuela Orlandi" ? Bookgrrl holler/ lookee here 17:25, 31 October 2018 (UTC)


 * No. This is an article about the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi, a topic that Wikipedia has deemed to be notable.  An article entitled simply "Emanuela Orlandi" would be appropriate if the article were about her, her life, her biography.  But, this article is not.  Because Emanuela Orlandi, as an individual, does not meet the criteria for notability.  So, the article is about the event (her disappearance) and not the person (Emanuela Orlandi).  The former is notable and merits its own article; the latter is not and does not.  Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:04, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Exhumation of graves
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48922826 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.77.254 (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Recent edits by Giovanni
Starting a discussion related to most recent reverts. I'm concerned about this reference in particular:. Its credibility is difficult to establish, so I don't think it should be used. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 14:50, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * That reference in particular was already present in the article, so, I simply re-made the reference. If it is not ok, another source for the Turkesh elements can be the Fabrizio Peronaci article "Giugno 1983, movente multiplo per il sequestro di Emanuela Orlandi, finita nel buco nero dei misteri vaticani" (https://www.corriere.it/sette/attualita/22_novembre_19/giugno-1983-movente-multiplo-il-sequestro-emanuela-orlandi-finita-buco-nero-misteri-vaticani-8dbba278-65d3-11ed-9758-a021e00ba84b.shtml) from the newspaper Corriere della Sera, 19 November 2022.
 * Mentioning the Turkesh organization is very important because it had a major role in the whole case, especially because they were able to give many details about the girl's private life (although they were a fake organization built up by the real responsibles to mislead the investigations.
 * It would be also very important to mention in the "Vatican sex scandal theory" that the first one to release the exclusive testimony of one of Orlandi's best friends was Italian journalist Tommaso Nelli in his book "Atto di dolore", and not Netflix docu-series. I think it's right to give credit to the ones that actually find this informations, in this case to Nelli. The source of this information (beside beign the book itself) is the article from La Nazione I mentioned in my edits.
 * Let me know
 * Giovanni

--Gio2.36.99 (talk) 20:15, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * That all sounds fair to me. I will reinstate and copy edit accordingly :) 01:32, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Changing main image
Hello everyone

I recently saw that a main image has been added to the page (the now-famous missing poster of Emanuela). I find this a very good idea, since that poster has become the most iconic symbol of this tragic event, so, I find it right to insert it. However, the image used has a very bad quality (it's the same used in the Italian article), so I was wondering if it is ok to change it with one of the same poster but with a higher definition. However, although I have been on Wikipedia from quite some time, I have never added any image, so I do not know how to do it properly.

Please, let me know if you agree and eventually tell me how to do it.

Gio2.36.99 (talk) 14:59, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Gio, does the image you wish to add have all the required permissions? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 15:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That is the problem...I do not know. I do not know all the permissions so I am unable to determine if it's ok or not. Sorry. But, as I said, I have never added an image before, so I really do not know anything about it.
 * It's a very popular image and very used on the internet, so I honestly do not believe there is some kind of copyright or else. I believe it's public domain.
 * You can find the image here [], althought the one I would add here is a little bit smaller and cut at the edge to focus more on the poster. Gio2.36.99 (talk) 15:37, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * So are you proposing to simply pull the image from the internet and add it to the article? I'm just trying to be clear on your intention, so we can figure out the best way to proceed. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. I found the image on the internet. It's probably the most used version of Emanuela's posters in the media (tv programmes, books covers, posters, his brother himself uses it always). The current image looks like a bad scanning of the poster, while the image I would like to add it's an original photograph in HD from 1983 of one of the posters.
 * Note that the one I would like to add is not exatcly the same from the internet. I reduced it a bit in size.
 * Perhaps I could try to add it myself and then you will decide if it's ok or not.
 * Again, unless I'm mistaken, I'm quite sure it's public domain.
 * Thanks Gio2.36.99 (talk) 07:08, 8 June 2023 (UTC)


 * When it comes to adding images off the internet, as opposed to ones you own, I'm not sure what permissions are required or how to obtain them. The best thing to do would be to ask here: Teahouse/About. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 12:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Photographic restoration
Hi @Gio2.36.99, you recently removed the photographic restoration that had been added to the article not long ago. What is your reasoning for not including it on the page? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:10, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi@Revirvlkodlaku. Yes, I removed that image from the article because - in my personal opinion - we shouldn’t add in the article an image that is an artistic restored version of an original one. The result is not so good and you can see it from the details (hair and left eye). It’s not an original one. I think we should add only real photos or original ones. Plus, the photo doesn’t even refer to the time of the disappearance.
 * If we have to add another image of Emanuela, I believe it would be better to add an original one and one of the time near her disappearance. If I have to mention one, I could suggest a screenshot of Orlandi at Italian TV programma Tandem when she and her school mates were invited as public just a few days before her disappearance.
 * Personal opinion
 * Gio Gio2.36.99 (talk) 11:56, 29 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Gio2.36.99, fair enough. I didn't think having a reconstruction hurt the article in any way, but I'm not set on it, either. Are there available images that could be used, such as the screenshot you mention, or did you mean that you (or another editor) could theoretically take a screenshot of a TV show? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 12:54, 29 July 2023 (UTC)