Talk:Disintegration (The Cure album)/Archives/2012/April

Studio?
According to the liner notes for the Deluxe reissue say recording finished by December, '88. I am not a big enough Cure fan to feel comfortable editing/changing this though. Any thoughts? Ideas? Anyone know more firmly? FangsFirst (talk) 20:20, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Where's the Re-release Info???
It's surprising and sad that the re-release info hasn't been added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris1emt (talk • contribs) 19:24, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Physics?
Who on earth decide to just up and move this to Disintegration (album) without good reason? If anything, the recent edit should be at Disintegration (physics). Thorns Among Our Leaves 18:00, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Why is this article linked to the general disintegration page? There are tons of articles trying to link to disintegration and getting a Cure album instead. Can we please have a disambiguation page?

This album is far more important than any of that other nonsense.(Paulo Fontaine 17:04, 24 January 2006 (UTC))
 * STFU68.76.77.51 23:50, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense?
It is important for you, but not so much for others, don't be egoistic. If you like the album you should care about the meaning of its name, don't you care? how will you understand the message without understanding the meaning of 'The Cure' texts.There should a disambiguation not only on physics but also: disintegration - loss of strength or cohesion. it should be explained in greater detail.

This should be moved
This should be remained Disintegration (album), and this changed to a disambiguation page. Some dork is making a joke, keeping this album as the general link for it.
 * I agree. Wouter Lievens 13:49, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Quick question
Anybody know if there will be a remastered version of Disintegration like all the other previous albums?

--theorb 09:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Cover Tribute
i think this should be added to the article there was a tribute cover done of this album by various artists in 2000

" Disintegrated (2000) - hardcore tribute to the cure

Composed entirely of covers from the 1989 album Disintegration, including every track except "Lovesong", which was to have been covered by Boston Hardcore band Diecast but did not make the final album cut. Includes tracks from Converge, Chimaira and Cave In "

http://www.interpunk.com/item.cfm?Item=75432& —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.208.111 (talk) 13:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Title
I think this should be re-named Disintegration(album), and, looking at the talk page, I'm not the only one. Disintegration does not mean an "album by the cure", it means, the process of "disentigrating", so, someone, please change it. Iamanadam (talk) 14:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Sales
The "Wild Mood Swings" article states that the album Wish has sold over 4 million copies worldwide, how come then that Disintegration is their top-selling album with 2.6 million copies sold? 2.6 million sounds too low. Revan ltrl (talk) 16:52, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Tolhurst as a writer
It's commonly known that Laruence Tolhurst did not contribute anything to this record but his name is named in the writers list in the liner notes to the album. The DVD Triology from 2003 also credits him as a writer on the Disintegration songs.

Maybe his name shouldn't be there but it is and i belive that Wikipedia should use the albums as a source and credit him as a writer on the Disintegration page.

20:37 5 January 2009 (DRF) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.186.252.183 (talk) 19:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Tolhurst is credited as playing "other instruments", which is what the liner notes state. NSR 77  T 20:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

True but he is also credited in the writers list were it says "Words - Robert Smith; Music - Smith, Gallup, Williams, Thompson, O'Donnell, Tolhurst" but wikipedia states something different. 19:08 7 January 2009 (DRF) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.186.252.183 (talk) 18:09, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Robert Smith has stated in numerous interviews that Lol Tolhurst contributed nothing to Disintegration. This is noted and sourced in the article. NSR 77  T 20:00, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I know but never the less, he is still credited as a writer and I believe that the album sleeve counts as a more credible source instead of something Robert Smith said in an interview years later. The DVD Triology, released as late as 2003, still credits Tolhurst as a writer on "Disintegration" but Wikipedia refuses. 22:02 7 January 2009 (DRF) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.186.252.183 (talk) 21:05, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Tolhurst is mentioned in the credits almost out of pity. Robert Smith's words are more reliable and far more straightforward than the ambiguous liner notes. The Trilogy DVD is forced to include the same credits as the three albums it plays live (Pornography, Disintegration, and Bloodflowers). NSR 77  T 21:09, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Didn't the Apter book say Tolhurst vaguely recalls writing some bits, but can't remember due to his alcohol intake? WesleyDodds (talk) 21:30, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Gosh, you really hate the guy! Never the less, I stand firmly in my opinion that he should be credited on wikipedias Disintegration-page as a writer too. Out of pity or not! And "ambiguous liner notes"?! Come on, there is more to the Cure than Robert Smith!

In Jeff Apters book "Never Enough" on page 237 Laurence Tolhurst says that the producer David Allen claims that Tolhurst played more on "Disintegration" than the previous albums but he himself cannot remember. 22:36 7 January 2009 (DRF) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.186.252.183 (talk) 21:36, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I like Lol just fine, thank you very much. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you are asking for here. Tolhurst is already given credit for the album and the situation is explained in the prose. It does not state Tolhurst didn't do anything but rather says "according to Robert Smith" he did not contribute. I personally like Lol quite a bit; he's a nice guy. We aren't neglecting to give him credit for anything, just merely reporting the facts. He is credited for exactly what the liner notes state: other instruments. NSR 77  T 21:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it's perfectly clear what I want. Tolhurst name on the writers list as acording to the liner notes. Now Wikipedias page only says "All songs by Smith, Gallup, O'Donnell, Thompson and Williams." That is not what the albums liner notes says where Tolhurst name is also included. And I know that Laurence Tolhurst is credited for "Other Instruments" but that is not the issue. I'm talking about his credits as a songwriter on the album! 23:29 7 January 2009 (DRF) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.186.252.183 (talk) 22:30, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay. Now the remastered version of Disintegration is out and Tolhurst is still credited as a writer. Even Robert Smith says in the new liner notes that Tolhurst contributed a flute sample that the rest of the band developed to the song "Homesick". Wont anyone please credit the guy as a writer now? 11:16, 30 May 2010 (DRF) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.130.29.139 (talk)

Just wanted to observe that the liner notes actually state "Tolhurst - Other Instrument". Singular. It's an important point as it's basically their way of calling him a wanker. As in, while the rest of the band were busy playing musical instruments, he was playing with his 'other instrument'.

Even if Lol Tolhurst wasn't responsible for one single note on the album, him being mentioned in Disintegration's liner notes has another aspect: If he gets writing credits, he gets part of the royalties as well. (Maybe this was part of the payment for being in the band, maybe it was some kind of compensation for being kicked, who knows...) As he appears as co-writer in databases like ASCAP's, which are used to determine royalties from radio broadcasts and the like, I don't see any point in ommitting him from the writers' list, when he legally is a part of it. Maybe it could be included in the article that he still gets money whenever a Disintegration song is played, without having contributed anything to it. 178.1.231.245 (talk) 23:51, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

What (who) is Apter
Notes (3-15) mention "Apter". Is it a person or a book or maybe a magazine?--Slav9ln (talk) 06:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's the author of a book, see the references section. --JD554 (talk) 09:57, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you!! I'm trying to translate this article to Russian.--Slav9ln (talk) 13:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

BLP "Violation"
Could you please explain where there has been a violation or breech of BLP? As noted in WP:LEDE, there is no requirement for sources in the lead of an article. The fact that you're slapping fact tags on several sentences when they are clearly sourced below by a highly reputable source (a Cure biography, no less) is unfounded in my opinion. Could you please explain your reasoning? NSR 77 T 10:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi - I agree there is no need for citations in the lead if the same facts are cited in the body. However, stating that someone exhibited "alcoholism" is not something we can do unless we have, say, a quotation from the person so cited, or possibly a medical record made public.  I do not have access to the book cited, but even if that book's author calls the person "alcoholic", or if one person quoted in the biography claims that about another person, I think BLP says we can't state it as fact here without primary sources.  So that's my reasoning for keeping this specific statement out of the lead and, actually, out of the article as a whole as a bald statement of fact.  If you want to add something like "fired from the band over erratic behavior" or some such (without the "diagnosis") I think that would be acceptable, though frankly I think it's fine as it currently is -- the reasons for the firing are more than thoroughly covered in the later sections.


 * Moreover, as someone coming fresh to this article I find that it attenpts to tell all about the behind-the-scenes interpersonal drama, leaning heavily on one source, which of course itself makes no pretense to NPOV or compliance to BLP guidelines (the Apter book is quoted more than 30 times in the article, and appears to be the only source of information about the issues surrounding the fired band member). This is a bad idea; the "alcoholism" claim is just the most dangerous one.  Jgm (talk) 13:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Apter interviewed virtually every member of the band and draws from virtually every magazine article/interview ever published of the band. I'm quite sure Tolhurst admits to his alcoholism at some point in the book, but, if not, then I'll simply reword it with "erratic behaviour". NSR 77  T 20:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Tolhurst's alcoholism is pretty public knowledge. The Apter book draws from extensive print sources, as well as interviews from people including Tolhurst himself. WesleyDodds (talk) 06:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Good to know. Still and all, I doubt he got fired for "alcoholism" so much as his behavior.  The former is a fairly loaded term with medical implications.  Jgm (talk) 11:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Dates of releases
The Cure's official site gives another dates of releases of singles. http://www.thecure.com/discography/ --Slav9ln (talk) 18:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

2010 remaster
The deluxe edition of Disintegration was announced on The Cure's official web site back in October. Is there a particular reason this information has not been added to the page?

http://www.thecure.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=23104

Runningofspace (talk) 22:50, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Moving album to "Disintegration (album)"?
This seems perfectly logical as there is no other album with this name, thereby removing the necessity of having "The Cure" in the title for disambiguation purposes. WesleyDodds (talk) 00:36, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed.—indopug (talk) 19:26, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly. So why don't we move it? Especially since Disintegration (album) redirects to Disintegration. 24.189.87.160 (talk) 03:57, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed No other albums named Disintegration no reason to name it this way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.99.105 (talk) 20:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)