Talk:Dissociative fugue

Origin of term?
I cant find anywhere in the article where it mentions how the term 'Fugue State' was decided upon. I am curious as to whether it is related to the musical term 'Fugue', as I can mentally draw some oblique parallels (sic) between the concepts. Would somebody be so kind as to add this small piece of history in near the top? 220.245.239.93 (talk) 12:02, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

The word 'fugue' comes from the Latin fuga 'act of fleeing,' (from fugere 'to flee'). The psychological term describes a state in which people literally flee from their usual surroundings, and so is not intended to reference the musical term, although the two types of 'fugue' do have a common etymology.Helruna (talk) 05:57, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Fictonal cases
The long list of fictional cases is out of place in an article on psychology. A couple of disctinctive cases that may shed light on the psychological point of view can be informative, but this laundry-list of pop-culture references that have little or nothing to do with the actual psycological state are very much out of place. Fugue is typically misrepresented in popular fiction, television, and film. Giving so much space to these pop-trivia examples detracts from an encyclopedic treatment of the issue. It should be totally, or largely, removed.

I agree with the below critic of somebody's colloquial definition of a fugue state as 'being in the flow'. I have never heard of this, & have been unable to turn up any supporting references at all, in the Oxford English Dictionary or various search engines. Perhaps it's a very local dialect? More likely a pure idiolectical usage. Doesn't belong here until references to its general use can be provided.

From the article:


 * "Also called a "fugue state" by non-psychologists is the state of mind attained by a gifted pianist ..."

Really? I am a gifted pianist, and I just call it "being in the zone" ;-) -- Tarquin 22:00 Oct 15, 2002 (UTC)

I'm a dancer and I've been in "the zone". I've also been in an actual fugue state. I can tell you, they are NOTHING alike.

I think the only examples to be included in 'Media' ought to be where the fugue state is made explicit as such. In both the movie mentions I removed, the 'fugue state' is an element that resolves the suspense/drama and isn't acknowledged till later in the movie. Gyan 20:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I wish you hadn't removed these! It doesn't matter if the 'fugue state' was an element that resolved the drama. Just because it wasn't acknowledged right up front did not mean that it wasn't actually a fugue state or that we did not want the names of the movies that gave us the example. Thanks for nothing!


 * "People who enter into a fugue state may disappear, running away to a completely different geographical region and assuming another identity."

May? The resources I have found say people in dissociative fugue do leave their homes and assume new identities. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I would like to see a source that confirms this. --AmyBeth 00:53:14, 2005-08-16 (UTC)

'May' implies that the author is giving his permission lol ! I think the word is 'might'. The article gives the impression that the author is only partially literate: I have changed 'alternate' to 'alternative', which I think is what is intended. Andrew Smith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.50.77 (talk) 16:07, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Mad Travelers
There should be a reference to the first cases of fugue. Dr Ian Hacking has a book called "Mad Travelers." He recounts the first cases and notes that they were all clerks, artisans, and small shop owners. This argues that something else other than sudden distress involving life situations is causing disappearances. (Dr Hacking blames sociological niches.)

Today students are disappearing. The connection between the 1880's epidemic of fugue and today’s student disappearances is that all the victims are knowledge workers.

An outbreak happened at Miami of Ohio in 1953. Several students disappeared, recovered, then returned with amnesia of the events during the episode. When Ron Tammen disappeared they thought he would return too. The story is posted at the Library site Miami of Ohio. The link and discussion is on the Missing Students page at VisionAndPsychosis.Net.

The problem is a failure to provide Cubicle Level Protection for those who must study or perform knowledge work in dorm rooms, homes, or small business, "unprotected workspace."

There are several pages on fugue at VisionAndPsychosis.Net.

http://visionandpsychosis.net/mysterious_disappearances.htm http://visionandpsychosis.net/Missing_Students.htm http://visionandpsychosis.net/Dissociative_Fugue-Cases.htm

L K Tucker 14:02, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

earlier goatse experience
209.78.47.227 03:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC) I'm new around here. But isn't the phrase "earlier goatse experience" on this page funny... but silly in a non-encyclopedic way? (surely goatse viewing wouldn't actually cause a serious identity disorder?)

Intro
The intro is too long, rambling and fairly incomprehensible. It should start by saying in plain language what a fugue state is. Ben Finn 21:32, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Organic cause for a fugue state: Treatment of bacterial infections.
In some cases, there is evidence to suggest that some types of infections, ie giardia, can cause a fugue like state; a feeling of not being here or schizophrenic like condition.

The cause by some sources has been suggested to me that this is caused by toxins created by the infectious material.

Therefore if some cases of a fugue condition are caused an infection, ie bacteria, then treatment would logically include treating the infection.

This is hopefully a lead for someone to interject some useful material.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)


 * This is baloney. Such material should not be interjected under any circumstance. Where's your data? JFW | T@lk  15:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

That was a lead...when I have time I will try to locate it a reference for it....just wanted to bring to your attention this important bit of information, that I obtained from a credible source...

--Caesar J. B. Squitti :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Todays research suggests that some schizophrenic episodes may be the result of a cat bacteria, and this is a link from the bacterial cause to the fugue state of mind ?

--Caesar J. B. Squitti :  Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:49, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The fugue state is a dissociative amnesia brought on by environmental stressors. At its most basic, it is a defense mechanism, classified as psychosocial in nature.


 * To support the premise you suggest, you would first have to find research linking schiaophrenia with psychogenic fugue. And you would be hard pressed to do this.  Then, you would have to find research drawing a line between organic causes of schizophrenia, and the occurence of the fugue state.


 * Fugue is such a rare occurence, it is unlikely that there are enough recorded cases to make an argument for any of this. --DashaKat 13:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

This is not a term paper
First, the fugue state, dissociative fugue and DID are not related, despite parallels in deiagostic criteria. Trying to draw a line between the two is plain poor scholarship.

Second, this is not a term paper, it is an encyclopedic article. Whomever is using the "therefore"'s, kindly stop. You are presenting information, not trying to convince the reader that the topic is valid.

This article, at second look, is quite poorly written, and the information contained herein is all willy-nilly. I am hoping that we can make a serious effort to clean it up. --DashaKat 13:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Untrue sentance
I'm just a kid who is doing a health project, but on the LSD page it says "There is also some indication that LSD may trigger a dissociative fugue state in individuals who are taking certain classes of antidepressants such as lithium salts and tricyclics."

Then on the Fugue State page it says that "Unlike retrograde amnesia, Dissociative Amnesia is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance."

Now, that seems just a little bit wrong.

If I totally messed up the format, I'm sorry. Just wanted to let you people know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.91.108 (talk) 23:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

The LSD page is wrong, it should say symptoms of dissociative fugue rather than an actual diagnosis of it. Valethar (talk) 13:51, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I Disagree
"this is not a term paper" My friend all Wikipedia articles are just that, poorly written term papers. There is no professionalism or expertise involved. That's why college professors flunk students who cite Wikipedia.

"dissociative fugue and DID are not related, despite parallels in deiagostic criteria" The first mistake made is to refer to the DSM. The authors admit they don't know what causes any of the "disorders" they list. That means they don't know where one disorder ends and another begins or the connections between them. Potential connections have been mentioned in presentations and papers.

"Fugue is such a rare occurence, it is unlikely that there are enough recorded cases to make an argument for any of this." The problem is that to record a case someone must seek psychiatric help. Every fall and spring college students go missing. A very few recover and return or are found alive. They exhibit psychiatric symptoms and altered mental states sometimes with amnesia. That hints at a fugue state and Dissociative Fugue.

The definition of Dissociative Fugue used in the DSM involves finding someone that left their life and assumed a new life with no memory connecting the two. Little is known about the events near the disappearance. They do not know what causes it. Psychosocial reasons are given without proof.

There are cases each month in popular media of people who without warning, out of character, and without mental problems disappear. There is sometimes circumstantial evidence that these are fugue cases. It is seen as rare because psychiatrists and psychologists tell us that. It may not be rare at all.

Visit my site and read the Dissociative Fugue, Mysterious Disappearances, and Missing Students pages for cases and links.

I am the copyright holder and grant permissions with correct citation and a link back.


 * That’s on the off-chance you ever become recognised as a reputable source. “Someone who has a webpage” isn’t that, though. Not that it’s necessary for fair use anyway, and not that “a link back” can be demanded.2601:1C2:5000:1472:A862:493D:ADA0:7987 (talk) 10:51, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

L K Tucker VisionAndPsychosis.Net 69.1.46.218 (talk) 03:30, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

is liam neesons character in "unknown" in a fugue state?
. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.100.111.40 (talk) 15:44, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

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Fugue state
Epilepsy and idiopathic seizure disorders are often characterized by a temporary loss of awareness of one's surroundings and the sudden uncontrollable and or unconscious compulsion to wander, look for an imagined fictional destination, and an uncontrollable sudden desire to change one's environment by searching for another place by walking or driving, (if in an automobile), accompanied by an only semi-conscious awareness of one's surroundings or physical, geographic location. The fugue state is also accompanied by confusion with a feeling of being lost in the physical directional sense and if indoors, often a strong compulsion to find and go to another part of the building which doesn't actually exist, often an imagined stairway to an upper storey that does not exist. One also only vaguely recognizes people whom one knows quite well, even intimately. When one comes out of the fugue state, she/he is unaware or only vaguely aware of what transpired. Normalcy returns and the person continues as if nothing happened. Patrick 94122 (talk) 00:32, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

I forgot to mention that Fugue State seizure episodes are almost always preceded by an aura or rising feeling in the abdomen with by a sudden chill or "gooseflesh" and a sudden onset of parlor or paleness of the face. The Vagus nerve system plays a part in this process but I believe the exact process is unknown. Slight tremor, mumbling and facial tics may also be present. by Patrick McGuire Patrick 94122 (talk) 03:04, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

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Suggested Line Edit
There is currently this sentence in the second introductory paragraph:

"Additionally, an episode of fugue is not characterized as attributable to a psychiatric disorder if it can be related to the ingestion of psychotropic substances, to physical trauma, to a general medical condition, or to dissociative identity disorder, delirium, or dementia."

The problem needing clarification ("Is dissociative identity disorder not a psychiatric disorder", etc.) seems to be the result of trying to make one sentence do too much work. I suggest rewriting the sentence from one large sentence to several simpler sentences. This would also improve the readability of the material. I would rewrite it as five sentences:

"Fugue episodes can be a part of dissociative identity disorder. They can also be symptomatic of other psychiatric disorders. Some episodes can occur from ingestion of psychotropic substances. Others are the result of physical trauma, delirium, dementia, or a general medical condition. Episodes are not considered symptomatic of a psychiatric disorder in these situations."

This is not the only way to do it, of course. Any restructuring of the sentence away from a long list to separate, manageable chunks of information should work.

Wiki Education assignment: Human Cognition SP23
— Assignment last updated by Bega24 (talk) 21:30, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 28 July 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus, MEDTITLE applies. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 07:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Fugue state → Dissociative fugue – Per the Manual of Style/Medicine-related articles (MOS:MED): "The article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources". "Dissociative fugue" is the established psychiatric term for this. It is the term used by both main authorities on psychiatric taxonomy, the ICD-11 (and 10) and DSM-5 (and IV). These are the two standards relating to names of diseases listed at the Manual of Style at MOS:MED. ("Fugue state" is frequently used in novels and other non-scientific sources that do not qualify as reliable sources.) SilverLocust 💬 01:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC) This was originally a contested technical request by jlwoodwa (talk) 23:21, 26 July 2023 (UTC) (permalink). SilverLocust 💬 01:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. As I said before, based on the Google Ngrams, the current title appears to be the most common name. What is most concerning about the Ngrams results is that in the last 10 years "fugue state" has been increasing in usage dramatically while at the same time "dissociative fugue" has been dropping dramatically. I understand the rationale for using the medically accepted term rather than a slang term, but is it the case that "dissociative fugue" is the only term that medical sources use and "fugue state" is not used, or are the two terms used interchangeably? Just quickly looking at some medical sources through a quick google searchh, it seems like both terms are still being used, with some also using a compound of the two "dissociative fugue state". I would also note that Britannica also titles their article on this subject "Fugue state". Wikipedia is a general use encyclopedia, not a medical journal. If both terms are acceptable and still in use in medical sources, then I think we should stick with the most common title and the one that most of our readers will be most familiar with. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:33, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There are a great many novels that like to use the older terminology "fugue state", so Google Ngrams is a poor indicator of use in reliable sources. For illustration, go to the bottom of your link and click "2017 - 2019" (fugue state) to see 10/10 top results are novels or homeopathy; then click "2016 - 2019" (dissociative fugue) to see 10/10 psychiatry books.
 * If this is meant to be a WP:COMMONNAME argument, I would like to see some attempt to show that fugue state is used in "a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources". While dissociative fugue is obviously not the only term used, just as I am sure some medical sources include the lay term "heart attack", that is not what the guidelines call for. Nor does Encyclopedia Britannica follow a naming convention like MOS:MED, or they would use myocardial infarction instead of heart attack. SilverLocust 💬 10:44, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Medicine has been notified of this discussion. SilverLocust 💬 10:21, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Psychology has been notified of this discussion. SilverLocust 💬 10:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Here from the WP:MED notification. Support per stated WP:MEDTITLE argument. Little pob (talk) 11:33, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. I think that the Breaking Bad episode Fugue State probably has something to do with the increased use of the term, but per the nom, move to reflect medical usage. Dawkin Verbier (talk) 11:46, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * support per WP:MEDTITLE--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:16, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Google Scholar gives me a 60–40 Ghits split in favor of the older name (quoted names in both searches), when looking at the last five years. PubMed gives me no instances of the older name used in the last five years, and an 20–80 split in favor of the newer name when lookingat the last ten years.  The fact that the ICD and DSM have both used "dissociative fugue" for both the current and previous editions is another solid reason to move the article.  I therefore strongly support this name change.   WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Support move, nothing to add that others haven't already covered. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  19:46, 28 July 2023 (UTC)