Talk:Dissolution of the Soviet Union

Is the new lead photo a perfect illustration?
I think the current top image, is great for this article, but the Russian flag doesn't really illustrate the union as a whole coming apart, rather than simply the Russian SSR reorganizing. It also implies a single event marked by the flag-lowering, rather than several years of separatism culminating in the flag-lowering. Perhaps a collage of key events would be more suitable? Would love to hear thoughts on this. Wodgester (talk) 17:54, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
 * A collage including the flag-lowering, as well as other key events in the collapse of the Soviet Union, might be an interesting idea. – Gluonz  talk contribs 18:51, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This might be more urgent, however, for the Revolutions of 1989 article, which is about a broader topic yet still only includes one infobox image. – Gluonz  talk contribs 13:08, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Cleaned up Bare Links
Hi! I've taken the liberty of fixing 25 bare links on this article. Atomic putty? Rien! (talk) (talk) 14:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Nazarbayev Portrait.jpg

Contradictory statement
Could anyone help me understand the following statement? Or confirm that the paragraph is indeed contradictory and should therefore be revised:

Consequences

Economic decline, hunger, and excess mortality

In the decades following the end of the Cold War, only five or six of the post-Soviet states are on a path to joining the wealthy capitalist states of the West, and most are falling behind, some to such an extent that over 50 years will be needed before they catch up to how they were before the end of communism. However, virtually all the former Soviet republics were able to turn their economies around and increase GDP to multiple times what it was under the USSR.

Am I missing something? If most are "falling behind"... how can "virtually all" have multiplied their GDPs??? Ninito159 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 4 April 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. (non-admin closure) Malerisch (talk) 23:55, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Dissolution of the Soviet Union → Collapse of the Soviet Union – Based on this evidence, "Collapse of the Soviet Union" is clearly the WP:COMMONNAME for this article. Malerisch (talk) 03:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "collapse of the Soviet Union" is about four times as common as "dissolution of the Soviet Union" (and the other alternatives of "fall" and "breakup") according to Ngrams:.
 * There are many more results in Google Scholar: 156,000 for "collapse", 37,700 for "fall" , 30,700 for "dissolution" , and 18,900 for "breakup".
 * lists 12 sources with "collapse" in the title (including what I'd consider the most comprehensive source for this topic, the 2021 book Collapse: The Fall of the Soviet Union) versus just one source with "dissolution".
 * Britannica's equivalent article is titled "collapse of the Soviet Union":.
 * Both The Cambridge History of the Cold War and The Cambridge History of Communism  use "collapse" in their chapters about this topic.


 * Oppose This article is about the dissolution specifically, and not the broader events that led to it. 128.193.54.168 (talk) 10:33, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * This article is about the collapse specifically, and not the broader events that led to it. DrakerBaker (talk) 13:53, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not, read the first sentence 128.193.54.168 (talk) 14:51, 6 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Existing main title header is analogous to other headers, such as Dissolution of Austria-Hungary, Dissolution of Czechoslovakia, Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire, Dissolution of the monasteries in Portugal, Dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles, Dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, Dissolution of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, Dissolution of the Russian Empire, Dissolution of Serbia and Montenegro or Dissolution of the union between Norway and Sweden, to name but ten. On the other hand, "Collapse of..." seems to bring up entries such as Collapse of Jiujiang Bridge, Collapse of the Royal Plaza Hotel or Collapse of the World Trade Center. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:45, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If the concern is about WP:CONSISTENT titling, I'll note that "Dissolution of X" is hardly the only way that articles about the endings of civilizations/countries/empires are titled: see Late Bronze Age collapse, Classic Maya collapse, Collapse of the Georgian realm, Division of the Mongol Empire, End of the Han dynasty, Fall of the Western Roman Empire, Fall of Constantinople, Fall of the Serbian Empire, Transition from Sui to Tang, Transition from Ming to Qing, Breakup of Yugoslavia, etc. Some articles have "dissolution" in their name due to WP:COMMONNAME, and others don't because it's not. In fact, some of the "Dissolution of X" articles could actually be titled with "collapse" per WP:COMMONNAME:
 * Dissolution of Austria-Hungary: "Collapse" is more common according to Ngrams, has more Google Scholar hits (1000 vs 700), and is what Britannica calls it:.
 * Dissolution of the Ottoman Empire: "Collapse" is more common according to Ngrams and has more Google Scholar hits (10400 vs 3700).
 * Dissolution of the Russian Empire: This is a stub and probably just titled after this article, but "collapse" is more common according to Ngrams and has more Google Scholar hits (2400 vs 300).
 * Dissolution of Czechoslovakia, Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire, and Dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles are correctly titled just because they're the WP:COMMONNAME according to Ngrams, not because of consistency:.
 * Dissolution of the monasteries in Portugal and Dissolution of the Parliament of the United Kingdom are not about civilizations or countries.
 * Dissolution of Serbia and Montenegro is a redirect, not an article.
 * Malerisch (talk) 03:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose The dictionary definitions of the words dissolution and collapse are quite clear. Pyeongchang (talk) 16:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Exactly, which is why it's relevant that a clear majority of reliable sources choose to describe the end of the Soviet Union as a "collapse" rather than a "dissolution". Malerisch (talk) 17:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose Much too vague. Not sure what it is referring to. Collapse of Soviet Union as a great power?  Collapse of the Soviet Union's economy? Collapse of the Soviet Union's prestige? Collapse of the Soviet Union in Olympic medal counts?  "Dissolution" seems clearer.  Walrasiad (talk) 09:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You won't find a single source referring to the USSR's prestige or Olympic medal counts when using the phrase "collapse of the Soviet Union". By this standard, isn't "dissolution of the Soviet Union" vague as well since it could refer to the dissolution of, say, Soviet gulags or Cominform? Malerisch (talk) 09:41, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "Dissolution" of a union - any union - makes sense in English. And it necessarily implies an end to that entity.  Collapse means anything falling down from a certain height. It doesn't necessarily imply any sort of end.  Just that something fell from a certain height it was at before - be they geographic size, global influence, GDP numbers, population, literacy rates, football rankings, etc.  "Collapse of Soviet Union" does not necessarily imply an end to anything. It simply means the Soviet Union fell in some ranking. And I don't know which ranking you're referring to. Dissolution is clearer. The dissolution of a confederation of sailors' & workers' councils implies that entity is no more.  Walrasiad (talk) 10:21, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * In the proposed title, "collapse" is referring to a state collapse, which is a well-defined concept and isn't vague at all. No reliable source uses the phrase "collapse of the Soviet Union" to refer to anything other than the topic of this article. Malerisch (talk) 11:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That's not only not clear, it is also an incorrect description. "State collapse" has an entirely different meaning than here. Anarchy did not prevail.  However tricky the post-Soviet order may have been, characterizing it as "state collapse" is a rather stretched POV. If that's what you mean (or if it might be confused with that), that's all the more reason to reject the proposed title.  Walrasiad (talk) 12:25, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * This is confusing a failed state with a state collapse. A state collapse refers to a situation where the structure, authority (legitimate power), law, and political order have fallen apart and must be reconstituted in some form, old or new. On the other hand, it is not necessarily anarchy. It doesn't refer to anything "post-collapse" and doesn't imply anarchy. Even the Wikipedia article makes this clear: the first sentence just says a state collapse is a sudden dissolution of a sovereign state. Malerisch (talk) 20:51, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose, per accuracy. Collapse seems to indicate an instantaneous event, the Soviet Union's dissolution took a bit longer than something in the state of 'collapse'. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Why gorbachiv responsible for disintegration of ussr
gorbachiv responsible for disintegration of ussr 49.14.109.157 (talk) 00:18, 16 April 2024 (UTC)