Talk:Divergent (novel)

Lead section
Due to the absence of a Lead section, I have created one with accompanying citations. However, I am not a fan of the book as I haven't read it, so if there are any editors passionate about this novel, please feel free to make any changes.--Soulparadox 16:13, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced review quotes
It seems like a lot of the sections outside the "Reception" sections are full of positive review quotes. While I don't think it's necessarily a problem to use quotes from reviews to, say, describe the style the book is written in, when they're quotes providing value judgments rather than description, it starts to make the article read like an ad for the book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.123.71 (talk) 00:31, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Removed the most egregiously biased examples from the Style and Themes sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.123.71 (talk) 00:34, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Dystopian?
The novel takes place in a technologically advanced future where intelligence, truth and justice reign supreme. Hardly is such a society "dystopian". Mdriver1981 (talk) 06:18, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * In author Veronica Roth's blog, it is stated that the Chicago in which Divergent novel takes place as Dystopian here and here and also all the notable sources stated it as Dystopian http://www.amazon.com/Divergent-Veronica-Roth/dp/0062024035, http://www.vulture.com/2013/10/divergent-author-veronica-roth-builds-empire.html, http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/divergent-veronica-roth/1026903257?ean=9780062077011, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/uloop/divergent-the-rising-craz_b_3815023.html.--Jockzain (talk) 10:14, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The dystopian elements of the world of Divergent are that despite the apparent appearance that "truth and justice reign supreme" when the reader enters into this very morally alien world the whole idea of it, if given any thought, is likely to be very unsettling and disturbing 2A00:23C5:C32D:CB01:99EC:835:84C7:DE03 (talk) 09:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Mathematical pun?
So, is it known whether writing the Divergent series was an intentional pun by the author or was it just a coincidence? --Mudd1 (talk) 19:51, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * From her interviews it is clear that there is no connection between Divergent series and her trilogy, so it looks like coincidence. Anyways only first novel is titled Divergent but second is called Insurgent and third is named Allegiant. So also being the title of first book in the series, the trilogy is known as Divergent trilogy.--Jockzain (talk) 21:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I've seen people call it "divergent series", too, even though you are right, "trilogy" is more common. Anyway, sadly a missed opportunity here and since there is no deliberate connection I don't think it should go into the article. Thanks for the response anyway :) --Mudd1 (talk) 19:48, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Plot summary too long?
Usually a plot summary is a paragraph or two. Divergent has way too much included and should be cut down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.255.193.224 (talk) 22:52, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Nida Adeel26 (talk) 18:24, 10 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Agreed to you both, though this is 2½-5 years later and your first response. The word count of the Plot Synopsis is currently just under 1390 words. According to WP:PLOTBLOAT, summaries ideally are 400-700 words. I am putting a {{plot} } template in the page. I suspect the synopsis needs to be mercilessly gutted. B'H.69.113.145.134 (talk) 15:10, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Giving too much away in the first line of the plot?
"This story takes place in the city of Chicago in the near future." - We don't know that the city is Chicago until the third book of the series (*not* in Divergent). Perhaps it would be better for this to be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rainbownelle (talk • contribs) 12:07, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi,

it does mention a previous park area called Milennium, though.

T

85.166.162.202 (talk) 21:42, 23 February 2014 (UTC)


 * In the first chapter of the first book it talks about the Hub, the building formally known as the Sears Tower. Seemed pretty clear to me.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.180.228.88 (talk) 22:15, 3 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I got it in the first book. Chicago seemed pretty clear to me. HullIntegrity (talk)

Dates
Last hour, more or less "today", I revised the lead and infobox, relying heavily on ISFDB and LC Catalog data, with references to those sources "Retrieved 2014-03-25."

First, the official timestamp was yesterday 2014-03-24 23:55 ;–)

Second, this article uses multiple date formats, perhaps most often DMY for both publication and retrieved dates, and DMY is unusual for USA subject matter. I see that Allegiant (novel) (book three) uses MDY exclusively for both dates and Insurgent uses MDY almost exclusively. It's reasonable to use that thruout consistently thruout our coverage of Divergent fiction.

--P64 (talk) 00:27, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Sent email to literary rep
FYI, I sent an email to her rep listed at http://veronicarothbooks.blogspot.com/p/contact-me.html asking for an image of Roth, and a list of interviews and reviews for this article. Sadads (talk) 20:39, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Review
Sadads has inquired about reviews (just above and at Veronica Roth). See Talk:Veronica Roth for the long version of this note. --P64 (talk) 18:54, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * ISFDB: Divergent (novel); Contents of F&SF November 2011
 * Kirkus search: veronica roth now hits Kirkus Reviews of the three Divergent novels

Four (July 2014)
Note, Data from Amazon as of 2014-03-22.

--P64 (talk) 19:15, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Recent student edits
The recent student edits to the page, clearly are approaching WP:Synth problems and WP:OR. Thank you, and  for reverting. I have started a conversation with their lead Campus Ambassador at User_talk:Michaelh.dick. They are going to contact the user and explain why that is a problem. I am going to try and recover some of the work from the contributions, but generally agree with the revert summaries, Sadads (talk) 20:43, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I have left an additional message at User_talk:SaniaH3, Sadads (talk) 21:28, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Punctuation
I am fairly confident that, in the sentence which currently reads "Another transfer initiate, Peter and his friends try to antagonize her during their initiation," an additional comma is required after "Peter" because it is a nonrestrictive appositive. (Explanation of rule: Chicago Manual of Style) I attempted to make the change, but apparently it is a subject of disagreement, so I am setting out the rationale here. Liberalartist (talk) 02:56, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Similar Works?
"Its major plot device, the division of society into personality types, is one used in other science fiction works". I feel like that should have a little blue [which?] next to it. 75.161.163.103 (talk) 19:36, 26 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's right. The main precursor we cite, "Profession (short story)" (Asimov 1957), features occupation/profession --which cannot remotely be Factions (Divergent) in general, altho it may be close for Dauntless.
 * What those two works share --evidently in our short story article and the Divergent film adaptation-- is the hocus-pocus science fiction brain test at the age of maturity, perhaps primarily; and the finality of the allocation. But Asimov's professional allocation is involuntary assignment, and the corresponding education is instantaneous by hocus-pocus transfer to the brain (again, I infer from our article).
 * --P64 (talk) 21:26, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * That was an uncaught addition. Intertextually, there might be some relationship, but I am not finding any documentation for that relationship. Sadads (talk) 14:41, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * In that case you should also either remove the comparison with The Hunger Games and The Maze Runner or else cite documentation. Paraknight (talk) 14:57, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

A very obvious precursor is 'Divided Kingdom' by Rupert Thomsom, first published 2005. Set in the UK 'In an attempt to reform society, the government has divided the population into four groups, each representing a different personality type. The land, too, has been divided into quarters....' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.14.36.126 (talk) 13:16, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Children's choice awards
Almost every US state has a "(school)children's choice" or "young reader" annual book award program, with rules and age groups that vary greatly. We have pages for a few of them. For example, Divergent won the 2014 Pacific Northwest (US/Canada) Young Reader's Choice Award and California Young Reader Medal. The former is the oldest such program, established in 1940--although the Senior category in which Divergent was this year's winner is not so old.

Beside reader ages, one of the variables is the time period covered each year. Divergent presumably won some of the 2013 awards (as some of this year's winners were 2012 publications). The sequel Insurgent (2012) did not win any of these 2014 state awards, however--if i clerk correctly. For 2014 awards only, I am able to report almost completely. Several of the linked pages are top pages for the program or for the category award. As I write, Oklahoma features the 2015 awards there; some other states feature 2015 with the 2014 winner below; as the school year progresses more 2014 winners will disappear from some of these targets to be found only in archives and lists of previous winners. Good luck.
 * Young Reader's Choice Award --Senior, oldest of 3 reader age groups
 * California Young Reader Medal --Young Adult, oldest of 4
 * Arkansas (December 2013), older of 2 teen = grades 10-12
 * Arizona, oldest of 4
 * Connecticut, middle of 3 = grades 7-8 "teen"
 * Indiana, oldest of 4
 * Louisiana, oldest of 3
 * Michigan, oldest of 5 - grades 9-12
 * Missouri, oldest of 4 - grades 9-12
 * Mississippi, oldest of 3 – grades 6-8
 * North Carolina, younger of 2 = middle school
 * New Jersey, older of 2 fiction - grades 9-12
 * New Mexico, oldest of 2
 * Oklahoma Sequoyah Book Award, oldest of 3 = high school
 * Oregon, oldest of 3 = high school --its own beside the Young Reader's?
 * Rhode Island (late 2013?), oldest of 2 = "teen"
 * South Carolina, oldest of 4
 * Tennessee, oldest of 4
 * Washington teen --beside the Young Reader's

--P64 (talk) 21:02, 8 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Beside numerous 2012 and 2011 publications there were some 2010 among this year's winners, and one 2008 (Paper Towns in Connecticut's high school category), and definitions range from a single designated publication years to a 5-year span or "recent" description. So to investigate one book across all states is daunting as well as premature for this book. --P64 (talk) 21:26, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Ah, there is a national Children's Choice Book Award by Children's Book Council. And the third Divergent book Allegiant was this year's winner in the oldest of 4 categories, "Teen". Published only October 2013! Here in the back pages we are free to criticize and I'm happy to go out on a limb and criticize that turnover time.

(Unless I missed it, not one of the Pacific Northwest and US state CCBA recognized a 2013 publication with a 2014 award this spring/summer --among perhaps 100 US state CCBA in more than 40 states.) --P64 (talk) 21:43, 8 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I have completed the same report for a young-adult novel published in 2012, The Fault in Our Stars by John Green. It was a 2014 CCBA winner in 10 states. Along the way I checked and found Divergent a 2013 winner in five of them: FL, NH, SD, VA, VT (example). See Talk:The Fault in Our Stars. --P64 (talk) 00:23, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for gathering all that information! Could you please add some more of that information to the article. I currently don't have the time to be revising the rewards section, I have a number of other commitments that have become rather busy! Sadads (talk) 14:39, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Please verify the validity of a recently accepted change
Hello, all. I've accepted this edit, as it doesn't appear to violate the criteria outlined at WP:Reviewing, although I can't confirm the validity of the changes. I'd appreciate if someone knowledgable about this article could look it over. Please feel free to ping me if necessary. Thank you! —zziccardi (talk) 00:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

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