Talk:Dixie Mafia

Southern Mafia
I have cut the following paragraph...


 * More recently, the term has been used, as well, to refer to certain conservative Congressmen from the South working together for a shared political purpose, as in "Truman presented Congress with a package of legislation that would have made lynching a federal crime, would have outlawed the poll tax and discrimination in interstate transportation, and would have barred discrimination in the armed services, in federal Civil Service jobs, and in work done under government contract. The Southern Mafia in the Senate, using the filibuster, killed all those bills."

There are several problems with this... first, the article states that the term Southern Mafia is synonymous with Dixie Mafia except for this political usage... so why raise the political usage of the term at all? It has nothing to do with the Dixie Mafia (the title of this article). Second, the article states that the Dixie Mafia started in the 1960s... so how does a quote about politics during the Truman administration fit with this? It can not have anything to do with the topic of the article. Blueboar 12:52, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

To answer your questions in order: First, "comparing and contrasting" are stock in trade for this kind of writing.

Second, just because the writing about the Dixie/Southern Mafia is relatively recent, one must not suppose that it is, too. A large number of the people traditionally involved and affected were illiterate. --216.77.231.87 13:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * How is this "comparing and contrasting"? I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.  My point is that the first part of the article defines "Dixie Mafia" in very specific ways... ones that do not jibe with the political usage of "Southern Mafia".
 * Let me give you another example... the article says that "All members of the Dixie Mafia were former prisoners from either the state or federal prison systems."  This works for "Southern Mafia" if we limit our discussion to the first part of that section ... but it certainly doesn't work with the "Southern Mafia" in the Senate that is being referred to in the Texas Observer quote.  Surely the Senators were not former prison inmates!  In other words... We are obviously talking about something very different in this political usage of the term "Southern Mafia"... one that does not fit with the rest of the article. Blueboar 14:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * A separate and disparate use is certainly a contrast worth noting. --MBHiii 16:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I have temporarily removed the Southern Mafia section of this article pending a decision on the AfD debate for Southern mafia. It is essentially a cut-and-paste from the article being reviewed for deletion and copying the content en-masse while it is being considered for deletion is inappropriate. It may be more appropriate to add some of the material (properly sourced and cleaned up) after the fate of the original material has been decided. Arkyan 16:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Iran Contra and Jack Abramoff links
The original edit by Blueboar removing these links from the "See Also" section were done in good faith as there is no apparent connection between these articles and this one. Nowhere in this article is anything about Iran Contra or Jack Abramoff mentioned, and nowhere in those two articles does anything remotely mention Dixie Mafia. The connection is neither implied by the text nor is it explicitly mentioned anywhere - how anyone could possibly interperet this as vandalism is beyond me. Unless it can be shown there is some logical reason to link these articles, stop reverting good faith edits. See WP:3RR.  A r k y a n  • (talk) 20:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The connection between Dixie Mafia and Iran Contra is detailed in the source cited with "Contra" in the title. Jack Abramoff is yet another felon, linked to gambling in the South, involved corruptly with public figures or officials there to aid gambling; because that is a new ongoing case, one can only read of other instances linking gambling, official corruption, and the Dixie Mafia in sources cited. MBHiii 20:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The first connection is fairly tenuous - the author of the source in question first links the Iran-Contra business to a Mr. Seal, and then Seal to the "Dixie Mafia". That seems a little weak a connection to me but if you insist on readding that to the "See Also" I won't object further.  The idea that Abramoff is a convicted felon involved in the same types of business as the "Dixie Mafia" is even less a tenuous connection - essentially a "guilty by association" connection.  It would be inappropriate to keep that link there without something more substantial.  A r k y a n  &#149; (talk) 20:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As a point of logic, "less a tenuous connection" is a stronger one. If it showed he's a member of the Dixie Mafia, what you seem to require, it'd be in the article. (The case is a good example, though, of an Unholy Alliance...) It's only a link to show that official corruption by gambling interests in the South is an ongoing problem, like the official corrupting effects of organized crime making and transporting marijuana and meth. MBHiii 21:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It should have been more tenuous, that was a typo. In any case demonstrating the corruption of officials (by gambling interests or otherwise) is a more general issue and not not directly related to this one, so putting links or information to that effect here is inappropriate  Items in the "see also" sections should have a more direct correlation to the topic at hand.  A r k y a n  &#149; (talk) 21:51, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * My edit was indeed in good faith. I saw no mention of Iran Contra or the Abramoff Scandal in the article, nor any mention of the Dixie Mafia on the articles about those subjects, and assumed it was a hold over from the deleted material on Southern Mafia.  Personally, I tend to agree with Arkyan that to qualify for a "See Also", there should be at least a mention of the connection in either the article or in the article being pointed to.  However, I don't see it as being important enough to get into revert wars about.  Blueboar 22:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree strongly with Arkyan and Blueboar concerning the "See Also" section. *Most* of the references in this section aren't mentioned AT ALL in the text, especially the KKK, ANY of the specific drugs smuggled (cocaine, pot, meth), Mena, Ark., or Jack Abramoff. However, I don't have any desire to further what apppears to be bordering on an editing war, so I changed nothing here. --Grndrush (talk) 17:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Oklahoma
Oklahoma played a large part of the Dixie Mafia too. We had Gene Stipe and Kirksey Nix. The Nix family was orignially from Oklahoma. See http://www.bancockfighting.org/articles/nov/nov1002b.htm

00:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, Gene Stip and Kirksey Nix are both confirmed players of the Dixie Mafia. I don't think your source is very good, but there is much information out about these two. --208.114.39.193 (talk) 18:22, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Not mentioned is Albert McDonald purportedly kingpin of Oklahoma Dixie Mafia. According to Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation files, Albert McDonald was a suspect in the attempted assassination of McNairy County Tennessee Sheriff Buford Pusser according to Information obtained from an informant revealed that Albert McDonald F.B.I. # 4,181,278 from the western Capri hotel Tulsa Oklahoma was hired to commit this murder, his associates Kirksey Nix Jr., Carl Douglas “Towhead” White. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sounerfan (talk • contribs) 03:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Mention of "Gillich"
I have cleaned up sentence structure and some organization, but I see the name "Gillich" mentioned as the unofficial leader of the Dixie Mafia but there was no prior mention of him.

Who is Gillich? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Byron Bell (talk • contribs) 02:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Copy Editing
I cleaned up the entire page, from a *grammar* standpoint, only. While I'm quite sure my grandfather was actually a member of this organization, it obviously wasn't a topic of family discussion, and I know little about the group. Further work clearly needs to be done; knowing my grandfather, combined with the "See Also" ref to the KKK, this group's involvement with the KKK should clearly be expanded upon by someone with the requisite knowledge. Ditto with Mena, Ark., the "Whiskey Rebellion, Iran-Contra, and Abramoff. Simply listing them as "See Also" isn't adequate, by any means, IMNSHO. I also removed all {ref}'s to "SwearingenLee", as I found no articles on "Swearingen Lee", "Lee Swearingen", or "Swearingen-Lee". I no no other permutations to look for.

I put the page on my watch list; *if no one objects* in a month or two, I will remove the "copyedit" request. --Grndrush (talk) 17:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The problems with the Iran-Contra and Abramoff connections are a bit egregious, but I have refrained from excising them for the sake of ending petty arguments with a certain editor who is intent on documenting these tenuous links. I would not object to seeing them removed altogether. Arkyan 17:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Links (again)
Please refer to the section above regarding the "See Also" links to Iran Contra/Abramoff. There is clearly no agreement that these links are appropriate to this article, and indeed the majority seem to feel that they do not belong. An IP editor (I strongly suspect it to be MBHiii insists upon re-adding these links when it clearly goes against consensus agreement. The issue should be discussed here and consensus reached that they are appropriate prior to re-inserting these links. Shereth 17:23, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Arkyan, now changed into User:Shereth, why blank useful, relevant info? 65.246.126.130 (talk) 15:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * As has been pointed out in the past, by editors other than myself, linking to the sorts of things that are only vaguely related is, contrary to your claims, far from useful or relevant. Let's be honest here - the point of a "see also" section is to provide links to articles that could, with a little bit of good editorial work, be included somewhere in the main body of the article.  It is not a dumping grounds for Bacon-esque sorts of vague connections that require multiple steps.  Remember, when you click on a good "see also" link, you should not wind up at an article wondering what it has to do with the one you just left.  Why don't we go ahead and put each and every one of your proposed "see also" links under the microscope?
 * Appalachia - This should just be mentioned above in the "Locales" section of the article. I'm going to move it.
 * burley tobacco - There is no readily obvious link here, so why is it in the "see also"? If the organization smuggled this as well, it should be mentioned inline along with the alcohol, drugs, and the like for clarity's sake.
 * Whiskey Rebellion - this event took place more than 160 years prior to the existence of the Dixie Mafia. Explain its inclusion here.
 * State of Franklin - ditto the above, but this is even more tenuous a connection.
 * bootlegging - This is already mentioned in the article (...move stolen merchandise, illegal alcohol...) and should be linked there. Ditto the above reference to moonshine.  In fact, I will make that alteration myself.
 * Bruce Yandle and Bootleggers and Baptists - No way. The guy wrote about them.  Use him as a ref, that's fine, but plopping him in the "see also" is overkill.  The Bootleggers and Baptists article may well be up for deletion shortly, itself.
 * Ku Klux Klan - I am okay with this one, although preferably it should come up as an inline mention in the article, explaining what connection they have.
 * 1960s - linking to years or decades is discouraged per MOS:SYL.
 * marijuana, cocaine and methamphetamine - should be linked together as illegal drugs in the main body of the article. I will do this myself.
 * Iran-Contra Affair - if an external reference has to be consulted in order to find the link here, it is too vague for a "see also" mention.
 * Mena, Arkansas - please explain why this city gets singled out here. If it was a significant base of operations for the Dixie Mafia, this should be mentioned in the article, not in the "see also".
 * Gambling - this should be mentioned as a link in the article, not the "see also". I will move it there.
 * Jack Abramoff Indian casino lobbying scandal - Again, this is not directly related to the Dixie Mafia. If the connection is not readily evident and direct, it is not suitable for inclusion in this section.
 * Please do not intercalate your responses into mine, and reply below. Shereth 16:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Others should weigh in; here are the proposed "See also" links. 65.246.126.130 (talk) 16:28, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

(Note, a bug prevents the correct references from showing here, which should be:
 * Appalachia
 * burley tobacco
 * Whiskey Rebellion
 * State of Franklin
 * moonshine
 * bootlegging
 * Bruce Yandle (1983) "Bootleggers and Baptists" Regulation Magazine
 * Ku Klux Klan
 * 1960s
 * marijuana
 * cocaine
 * methamphetamine
 * Iran-Contra Affair (see Evans-Pritchard reference below)
 * Mena, Arkansas
 * gambling
 * Jack Abramoff Indian casino lobbying scandal

Bruce Yandle, "Bootleggers and Baptists: The Education of a Regulatory Economist." Regulation 7, no. 3 (1983): 12.

Evans-Pritchard, Ambrose (1994) "Smugglers linked to Contra arms deals," The Telegraph plc.)


 * Your response has done nothing to address the concerns I have raised regarding any good rationale for the inclusion of these links in a "see also" section. Shereth 16:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

A bit of a question.
The article says the Dixie Mafia is still active ("Late 1960's - Present"), but refers to the group in past-tense. Why is this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.72.96 (talk) 14:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Damage done to the article
Apparently someone severely damaged the article by mentioning a myriad of inexistent Sicilian-American mafia families, even going as far as claiming that the Dixie Mafia is Italian (while it's White Southerner). I have deleted these from the infobox. As far as the 'membership'-topic goes. In previous articles it was claimed that there are +/- 100 Dixie mafia members. The fact is that it's unknown how many members there are (most likely to be much higher than 100, as they operate throughout the South). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Begbiepwns (talk • contribs) 08:55, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

comments moved from article
The "Dixie Mafia" is a concept in Southern Folklore. There is no such organization; unlike the "State Line Gang.". This article is a lot of cut and paste from the book Mississippi Mud. Every time I correct this piece, someone takes it down. There was a book published in the early 1970's called "The Dixie Mafia."

I realize that the Sherry family is rightly distressed by the murders in Biloxi. But even Ms. Sherry's book; Mississippi Mud; does not take this kind of license. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:77f3:eb50:15aa:92df:2ac:a818 (talk • contribs) 18:31, August 22, 2014‎

Moved to talk by Meters (talk) 18:35, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

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political persecution of Tump and the bias of wikipedia
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