Talk:Do Not Stand at My Grave and Weep

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Karin, I am afraid you are delusional. The poem was written long before 1981. I had the text from an old newspaper clipping and read it at my son's funeral in 1984. I am inclined to believe Dear Abby, and credit authorship to Mary Frye.

Kevin McQuillian68.205.169.151 (talk) 00:57, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Moved from the article 11:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC) – Qxz

As to clear up all the encertainties about this poem: the writer could not be Mary E.Frye, as I (Karin A.Vorrink) wrote this poem on March 22nd, 1981. I still have my original handwritten copy in my possession. The first time I read my poem before an audiance was on November 2nd 1994, at the funeral of my father. In my family my grandfather alraedy wrote poetry and wrote music with his poetry. I still possess his handwriten songs (classical). My father also was a writer and both of them were teachers. I, myself have written more poems, in the time between 1975 and 1982. This timespan was a very unhappy time for me, so the poemwriting was a way to "survive" my sadness.

I am a Dutch woman, born on 29th of March 1944 in the Hague in the Netherlands/Europe. My poems are written in English as a result of my study in Eindhoven(NL) given by Cambridge University.

Karin Aleida Vorrink [e-mail address removed]

no it was in a letter written by a Steven Cummings. it was opened on the day of his death when his landrover was blown up by a land mine. it was reproduced in the maily mail newspaper in 198964.53.235.66 02:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * And I am Spartacus, you guys. It was published somewhere. If you know the authorship, find a verifiable citation for it. MMetro (talk) 05:21, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Mary E. Frye's obituary claims that she was the author of the poem. The article claims, Frye’s assertion that she wrote the piece was confirmed in 1998 after research by Abigail Van Buren, the newspaper columnist responsible for the popular column “Dear Abby”. -Phoenixrod (talk) 08:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Another name that seems to pop up in connection to the poem is "Melinda Sue Pacho." When she's cited, the title is "I Did Not Die." Googling her full name brings up many pages where she's cited as the author, but nothing else. Why so many names come up for this poem is beyond me, but there you go... Jcb9 (talk) 18:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

You know that anyone is free to translate text that is considered public domain but that translation is protected under a separate copyright. Man Arai has full rights to his song, and he puts income from that song into a charity trust fund. It's extremely distasteful to put up the full text of his translation here. More like copyright violation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.144.50 (talk) 06:22, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

German Version
I found a pretty nice German translation, though it is only fan-made: http://wortlandung.blogspot.com/2007/12/wo-mein-grab-liegt-bin-ich-nicht.html

Actually, it is a pretty good translation but I am unsure if it should belong to a wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.174.100.191 (talk) 09:03, 6 July 2010 (UTC)


 * In general, there's no reason to include non-English translations in the English Wikipedia. -Phoenixrod (talk) 22:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for feedback. My "translation" saves the metrical composition and, of course, the rhymes of the Mary-Frye-version. That´s the reason, why I didn´t translate exactly word by word, although most of the words and contents are identical with the english original. Greetings from germany, Michael "mkh" http://wortlandung.blogspot.com/2011/12/at-my-grave.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.211.39.20 (talk) 13:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

William Wordsworth
I've removed the following italicized text from the article as original research:

''Mary Frye’s poem has echoes and some sentiments reminiscent of Wordsworth's "The Complaint of a Forsaken Indian Woman" ('Lyrical Ballads 1798'. see Oxford University Press, Edition 1969, and later reprints)

''Quote: 'Then do not weep and grieve for me'

''Wordsworth wrote that the poem was designed to "follow the fluxes and refluxes of the mind when agitated by the great and simple affections of our nature ... by accompanying the last struggles of a human being at the approach of death, cleaving in solitude to life and society."

''The introductory note records that when a Northern Indian, from sickness, is unable to continue his journey with his companions; he is left behind ... and if he is unable to follow, or overtake them, he perishes in the Desart [sic] ... females are equally, or still more so, exposed to the same fate.

If there are any sources for these claims, then perhaps they can be re-introduced to the article. -Phoenixrod (talk) 16:50, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

William Wordsworth
I am new to this game so please advise me where I can post my contribution which you have removed. My contribution surely adds to the debate on origins? Why someone has not picked this up before, I don't know. Regards HK 19 November 2010 H K Rodd (talk) 14:34, 19 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, so you wrote the section I quoted above? Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not allow what we call original research. In essence, we cannot write about a connection between Wordsworth and Frye unless it's in secondary sources. Your comment, "Why someone has not picked this up before, I don't know", is a perfect example: you are drawing a connection on your own that, sadly, counts as original research. While the academic world thrives on original research, Wikipedia doesn't. You could include it only if it's discussed in reliable sources. -Phoenixrod (talk) 02:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

song versions
I suggest the following addition. By far the most popular sung version now is Part V of Howard Goodall's Requiem: Eternal Light Alf Heben (talk) 00:29, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

criticism
While the question of attribution has occasioned much debate, as is natural, a section on literary critical reaction (if there has been any) would be appropriate. For example, the version produced by Frye has four extra lines which are vastly inferior to the rest in having an odd number of syllables and very banal imagery. (This makes me suspicious of her claims by the way.) In what is clearly a "folk" poem one would naturally expect to find a very regular metre, either alternating 4 feet (i.e. 8 syllables) with 3 (i.e. 6 syllables), or simply 4 feet per line. None of the versions I have seen quite achieve this, but may easily be made to do so, The following is what has been called the ‘modern definitive version’ but with two emendations: (i) losing two syllables in the line “When you …”; (ii) changing ‘starlight’ to ‘starshine’, following in this respect the first printed version of 1968, the reason is that the internal rhyme ‘light’/’night’ is too obtrusive. Do not stand at my grave and weep I am not there; I do not sleep. I am a thousand winds that blow, I am the diamond glints on snow, I am the sun on ripened grain, I am the gentle autumn rain. When you wake in the morning's hush I am the swift uplifting rush Of quiet birds in circling flight. I am the soft starshine at night. Do not stand at my grave and cry, I am not there; I did not die. Alf Heben (talk) 01:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

change is non-authoriotative
The change in the words has been ref'd to http://www.businessballs.com/donotstandatmygraveandweep.htm, surely that is not authoritative and we should be utilising the work as published by the author. — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Title
Shouldn't it be "Do Not Stand at My Grave and Weep"?--Mycomp (talk) 12:54, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Mycomp (talk) 06:17, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Downgrading
Until "However, other, similar versions of this poem had been circulating for some time and were sometimes found in tombstones prior to when Frye claimed to have written the poem, and Frye did not produce any real evidence that she actually wrote this work. In addition, while there had been considerable anti-semitism in Germany back in 1932, the Nazis did not win power until 1933, weakening the veracity of Frye's story which was never corroborated." gets a citation. --Neopeius (talk) 05:00, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Orientation toward Harner
I have refocused the article's attention on Clare Harner. The lede was too long, and digressed far too much on false attributions. The author of the poem is not in dispute. Moreover, Frye's plagiarism was given far too much weight in the article. It's irrelevant why she claimed she wrote the poem, since she never did. People who are curious about her motivation can follow the cited sources. For those curious about the poem, it's more helpful to have the article focus on its actual author. Trumpetrep (talk) 19:40, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Copyright violation?
Clare Harner died in 1977 so... isn't the full text of the poem a copyright violation? Jaqen (talk) 20:16, 14 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The poem was published in 1934 or earlier, so the author's death date isn't relevant. A source (as mentioned in the box boilerplate) is given in the article. - R. S. Shaw (talk) 01:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @R. S. Shaw: afaik that's only true if the work was published without a copyright notice (Cornell). This is of course possible, but I don't understand how it is proven. Jaqen (talk) 07:36, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jaqen: From that page, it seems the only scenario under which this would be a copyright violation would be if the copyright for this poem has been renewed (if it was copyrighted in the first place). I can't find the original publication anywhere online, but I can find copyright renewals. For works published before 1964, their copyright needs to be renewed 28 years later (1). In this case, it would be 1962. Looking through this (2) and this (3), this poem isn't anywhere to be found, so as far as I can tell, it's in the public domain.
 * There's also this (4) site which claims it's in the public domain, but I'm not sure how reliable it is. ARandomName123 (talk) 16:22, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @ARandomName123 Thanks for the clarification! Jaqen (talk) 16:58, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem. If you don't mind, I've removed the copyright tag. ARandomName123 (talk) 18:16, 16 July 2023 (UTC)