Talk:Doctor Zhivago (film)

Plot Synopsis
Should we be seeking consensus about how long the plot synopsis ought to be? A template message has been added, not unreasonably since the synopsis, in two parts, is clearly way over 700 words, but perhaps an exception should be made for a 193-minute film: at least one editor seems to have felt at some point that this film was a special case. Per$1$tenceofv1$1on (talk) 01:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Per$1$tenceofv1$1on


 * FWIW, the "plot summary" section of the Wiki article on Pasternak's novel begins: "The plot of Doctor Zhivago is long and intricate. It can be difficult to follow..." Per$1$tenceofv1$1on (talk) 01:12, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * At around 830 words it does exceed the normal 700 word maximum - but as you say the length of the film does provide some reason for this. It is far less egregious than the summaries in some other articles, which I have shortened. And if you read the plot summary as it now stands, it really has very little 'fat' compared with others. I think it would start to lose value if shortened. Ponsonby100 (talk) 09:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The guideline is precisely that, so exceptions can and should be made where applicable. I have never agreed with using the length of a film to justify making an exception to the guideline; exceptions should based on complexity, and how useful the plot summary needs to be. Gone with the Wind is a longer film and has a shorter summary, but perhaps it is a less complex film that can be summarized in fewer words. I take a fairly relaxed view on this: if a plot summary for a thematically complex film is only slightly over the word count, and there has been a credible attempt to tighten it up then I think that is a reasonable point to invoke the exception, which does seem to be the case here. Betty Logan (talk) 15:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much both! I've made some very trivial changes so the summary should now be a little under 800 words, and I'm going to remove the template. Per$1$tenceofv1$1on (talk) 19:06, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Lede Comment
Currently the lede's second paragraph starts, "While immensely popular in the West, Pasternak's book was banned in the Soviet Union for decades. For this reason, the film could not be made in the Soviet Union and was instead filmed mostly in Francoist Spain." A basically identical statement ("Because the book was banned in the Soviet Union, it could not be filmed there") was removed from the body of the article on 5 July by an editor who said it was "nonsense/a lie": I think it's more accurate to say that the banning of the book in the USSR and the impossibility of Lean filming there were both products of the Cold War (how many Western movies were shot in Russia before The Blue Bird?). I'm going to revise the lede's 2nd para slightly. Per$1$tenceofv1$1on (talk) 23:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

coat
(regarding an edit I made that was reverted for being unsourced) sources are https://enzyklo.de/Lokal/42134/Begriff/Schiwago_Look and https://elle.de/fashion-fashion-news-virtuelle-ausstellung-yves-saint-laurent-184529.html but we should probably use English-language sources if available. Arlo James Barnes 21:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The first link does not work, and the second does not mention Doctor Zhivago from what I can see. Betty Logan (talk) 21:42, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * So the second, German, article alludes to the movie's influence on fashion briefly in paragraph 3:"Seine ersten Kollektionen galten als skandalös. Er verwendete als einer der ersten Designer transparente Stoffe [...] 1965 entwarf Yves Saint Laurent das legendäre Mondrian-Kleid, ein Jahr später den Schiwago-Look mit transparenten Oberteilen und Trenchcoats" which translates as "Yves Saint-Laurent's earliest collections caused a sensation. He was one of the first designers of transparent material [...] in 1966 he designed the 'Zhivago look' with transparent tops/upper garments and trenchcoats" Unfortunately the first link doesn't work, so this source alone doesn't back up the recent edit. Having a brief look online I saw this: Per$1$tenceofv1$1on (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I am able to refind the content on the 'enzyklo' site but not what the URL is to update the link. Maybe AJAX at work I guess. Arlo James Barnes 01:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure my reply didn't originally use block quotes! Per$1$tenceofv1$1on (talk) 13:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)