Talk:Dog & Bull

Bits and pieces
Hi. I've been having fun adding little bits to the above article - I hope that's OK. Please feel free to change or remove any of my additions, if you like. I would have liked to have found more about the Bell inn but could not. There must be more out there, somewhere, but I'm running out of ideas about where to look. There is certainly more in the C19 newspapers about the inquest on the child. Let me know if you want me to add any of that (leaving out any horrific bits, of course) Victorian journalists were very compassionate, usually, so it should be possible to add the info tastefully. Storye book (talk) 17:04, 5 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I'll be keeping an eye on the article as it goes through the DYK process and have some more bits to add as its long history fleshes out. Your additions from the newspaper archive were good.  I looked at some other newspaper archives but didn't find much so it's interesting that they differ. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:03, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I look forward to seeing what new information appears. I have discovered from old newspaper reports that Butcher's Row was not the whole street (or at least not the whole of Surrey Street as it is today), but a row of very old jetted-storey buildings which was near, but didn't include, the Dog & Bull. That row was originally called the Shambles. The row burned down on 9 October 1910, and on 7 January 1911 it was reported that the footings or part-walls of the old Market building were discovered inside or underneath - not sure which because the microfilmed image is too dark to see. I would have liked to have added that to the article, but I don't suppose it belongs there. The Victoria County History mentions, if I remember rightly, that the Market building was erected in Tudor times. Storye book (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * And another thing ... The premises damaged by fire were: no.38 Surrey St fried fish shop, no.35 butcher's shop, 37 hardware stores, 39 shop, 40 cinemategraph hall, un-numbered empty storeroom for 39 and 41, 41 wardrobe dealer, 42, butcher's shop. I have copied this in the same number order as in the newspaper - the ordering is odd, but there it is. Storye book (talk) 20:13, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The area seems quite rich in history but it's on the other side of London from me. I've never been there and tend to avoid going south of river as it's out of my comfort zone.  Anyway, all that good stuff can go in the Surrey Street Market article.  Note that a shambles is another name for a place of slaughter and so fits with the Butcher's Row name.  This sort of topic is like a jigsaw puzzle -- fitting all the pieces is good fun, eh? Andrew🐉(talk) 20:46, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Ha, yes, fun, but I'm even further away - Yorkshire. But if the lockdown eases up over summer, I may be able to ask a West Sussex friend to pop over and photograph the windows from the inside, if someone hasn't done that already. Fingers crossed for that. I didn't realise that shambles meant slaughter - yes that does make sense.Storye book (talk) 20:58, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry, I should have explained. See File:Dog and Bull pub, Croydon.jpg. The journalist got the date wrong. If you disagree about that, then I'll get the commons image deleted. Storye book (talk) 12:00, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what journalist you mean. I found the image on Flickr which states quite plausibly that the photo was taken in 1987 and so it's not PD.  CAMRA's The Drinker says that the major renovation which had the place merged with A.E.Pearce took place in the early 90's and so it fits that timeline.  There seem to be lots of postcards of Surrey Street out there so maybe we can find something older.  For the Greene Man, I was able to find several old paintings but that place was more picturesque and artists drank there! Andrew🐉(talk) 12:27, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I had been given different information about the date, but to be on the safe side I have put a speedy delete tag on the image. Storye book (talk) 12:57, 6 February 2021 (UTC)