Talk:Dog agility/Archive 1

What do dogs think of dog agility?
I think there should be a paragraph near the beginning of the article about how dogs themselves react to Dog Agility. Yes, I know it's generally good for them both mentally and physically, but I still think that such a key issue deserves it's own paragraph. Also it should probably have some mention of how suitable different breeds are for this sport, and it should mention that it can also be practiced as a hobby without intention of competing. Maybe also a mention that it's one of the best hobbies for dog breeds who are both physically and mentally very demanding pets. I'm not an expert on the subject, so it would be better if someone else could write the paragraph.

Tuukka Tiensuu

I think that most dogs love agility!! I know for one my dog does. I think that it is a little easer for smaller dogs to do the tunnels as the bigger dogs don't fit as well. But my lab loves most parts of agility!

Tara —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.209.107.243 (talk) 15:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

History
Is it fair to say that although it was first seen at Crufts in '78, many of the basic "tricks" have been part of police dog (and presumably army dog) training for much longer than that ? -- Finlay McWalter 00:37, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Good point. I'm not familiar with those areas and so hesitate to say anything at all. Feel free to add an appropriate note with possible links. -- User:Elf


 * Well, I dunno, but the police HQ near by home has always (I _think_ since before '78) had little walls and ramps for the dogs and I think they're supposed to jump through hoops too.  I'm not sure enough to make the change, however. -- Finlay McWalter 01:04, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * On seeing the obstacle pictures, it looks exactly how I remember the police dog training regime to be. Fortified by this, I put in a mention that the original had elements of both policedog training and sheepdog trails. -- Finlay McWalter 17:52, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes, but not as the agility we know it, it's an obstacle course much like the one grunts in the army has to do. It is to train the dog to adapt to new situations, and it includes anything from climbing walls, jumping to walk on grated iron, enter containers etc. (the latter is used a lot for narcotic's dogs) Chosig (talk) 16:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

--- I was trying to add metric equivalents to the dog agility page. Instead of simply converting the (presumably US derived) measurements, I decided to look around the world at the various rules and see if I could find dimensions in metric numbers. For example, the current page says that the ramp should be 8 ft long but some countries say that it can be 3 m long. Of course, with 200 countries it is difficult to find a consensus (even if I could read all the languages). So I looked for a source that is reasonably acceptable as a reference.

I found a document at a South African site which gives fairly comprehensive metric and non-metric values. I am not a dog agility expert. Do you guys think it is a good source for using here? Bobblewik 19:06, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * Wow--like, actual research! :-) I double-checked a couple of things and fixed some US measurements in this article to be more accurate.  IAL is interesting because its rules were created about 6-7 years ago by active (and sometimes vehement) negotiation among agility enthusiasts around the world in an attempt to come up with equipment specifications that at least somewhat resembled what most organizations were doing at the time.  So its measurements represent sometimes an average, sometimes a majority, sometimes a compromise. What I have in the article at the moment attempts to capture the wide range of rules among different organizations.  For example, here in the U.S., NADAC requires that the Aframe be no more than 5 feet high; USDAA requires it to be 6 foot 3 inches high; CPE goes as low as 4'8". NADAC and USDAA have 36" yellow contact zones on the teeter and dogwalk but CPE uses 42". CPE and AKC require 24" openings in the tire jump; USDAA wants no more than 20".  And that's just in the U.S.!  So I attempted to put what I know about American & international measurements into he article, hence some really wide ranges (e.g., dogwalk planks 8-12 feet).  Soooo... I suggest starting with what I have in the article; feel free to compare to IAL and ask any questions about things that, to an outsider, might seem odd or wrong or confusing--because this article, I presume, will be read by more outsiders than agility experts!  At least I hope so.  :-)  Elf | Talk 19:43, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * The original agility equipment measurements were in imperial units due to the British origins of the sport, and imperial units for measurements of length were and still are widely used (all our road signs are in miles, not kilometres). The current, recently amended Kennel Club regulations for the A-frame are: "'A' Ramp—Two ramps 2.74m (9ft) long by 914mm (3ft) wide hinged at the apex 1.7m (5ft 7ins) from the ground. The last 1.067m (3ft 6ins) from the bottom of each ramp should be a different colour to indicate the area with which the dog should make contact. Each ramp to have a non-slip surface, and anti-slip slats at intervals but not within 152mm (6ins) of the start of the contact area." AgilityAddict, 29 May 2006

--- To Elf and others, as a longtime agility competitor and new Wikipedian, I really like this page very much. It is a cogent and understandable explanation of the sport. I think it does credit to both dog agility and Wikipedia.

Regarding the discussion of police dog work, isn't that taken care of by a link to Schutzhund? -- Jimhutchins 12:06, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Sure; thanks. I added it. More notes on your talk page. Elf | Talk 20:16, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How is a 270 degree turn different from a 90 degree turn? Is it actually necessary for the dog to turn more than half way around, rather than just turning directly to its new path...?


 * Yes indeed! If I get a chance, I might try making some course diagrams. Sometime. Eventually. Meanwhile, picture this overhead view of two jumps:

|-|      1     --            |            | 2            |           --
 * The dog goes out over the jump numbered 1 and travels around to his right, making a 270-degree turn, then comes in over jump 2.

Elf | Talk 15:54, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

History questions
When did USDAA introduce different titles? Different games? What was evolution of sport in England? When did FCI recognize agility? When was 1st international ch? When did it first take place in various other countries? Why did Nelson split off from USDAA? What happened to NCDA and AAAI?


 * Good questions! Wish I had answers! Elf | Talk 01:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Prairie Dawgs Agility
I'm a bit concerned about this company. They've added one advertising page to Wikipedia which was deleted as spam. This is the second time that they've added a link to their company web site. I've removed it from this article because I think it is of local interest only and doesn't have the broad (often international) applicability of the other links. I'm also concerned that they're trying use Wikipedia to pad their Google rank and sell product.

If someone who is a more regular editor of this page has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them. I'm assuredly not an expert on this topic, and if the consensus is that their site adds substantial information not present in the existing external links then it should go back. --TenOfAllTrades 02:41, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with you; I've removed it at least once myself. If they're not reading the history or the talk page to see why their link was removed, there's really nothing to do but to be patient and keep removing it. Eventually such things usually go away from exhaustion. It's not really vandalism, particularly with only one or two links here and there. Elf | Talk 14:04, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Removing links
I and others have removed quite a few external links from this article; here's some commentary.


 * Agility Video Service Library of Video Clips (although I believe anyone can view these video clips of agility for free, which might be very worthwhile, this is the site for someone who sells the videos to regional competitors.)


 * Agility Eye (an online agility magazine whose front page is all ads, which is generally against wikipedia's approach to external links. Can't find a good page to link to that shows it as a collection of general agility info w/out ads)


 * Agility Addicts (just one of thousands of agility clubs, many with useful agility info as well as regional-specific info; no reason for this one to be listed)


 * Mighty Mite Small Dog Sports Info Page (random collection of links, many to online stores, most others can be found elsewhere)
 * Agility dans le Monde/worldwide (french agility links)
 * Foxi's Agility Homepage (swiss agility links (not English))


 * Forums (wikipedia generally doesn't consider forums and blogs and such to be encyclopedic-type links):


 * Agility Forum
 * Agility Vision (another online agility magazine-like-thingie that's free with blogs including some from prominent agility folks, free videos, etc., but also page is decorated with ads. A borderline case for allowing some sites with ads, as these might be (but not sure) more generally useful agility blogs than run-of-the-mill individual dog's blogs.)


 * Cleanrun Discussion Lists


 * Mighty Mite Small Dog Sports Forum


 * Dog Patch Forums
 * Agilitynerd - Dog agility and technology (it's a blog; it has lots of good posts about agility training and courses but also veers into personal blog stuff depending on the situation. Another borderline case where sometimes it would be really useful and sometimes not.)

Elf | Talk 01:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the last remaining link (IFCS) in the External Links section to its proper place in the International Competition section, and have also incorporated links to the other international competition pages in that section. In the Reference section, I've removed the two books listed as they were shown with identical ISBN numbers. I've added a link to a UK-authored Introduction to Agility to balance the American equivalent. AgilityAddict, 29 May 2006

Expanded sections on agility in the UK and elsewhere
I've reorganised and expanded the information on agility in the United Kingdom so that it is similar in format to that on agility in the United States. I've also started sections for agility in Australia and New Zealand, but I don't have the expertise on those parts of the world to do more than provide some basic links. The page could do with knowledgeable contributors from Canada, Australia and New Zealand to provide a fuller picture of agility across the English-speaking world, and we could do with providing more information about agility in other countries as well. AgilityAddict 21:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Media section
I've removed the Media section. Although I can see advantages to including video clips, I'm dubious about the two links that had been placed there. One was a file in .ogg format that I couldn't even view with Media Player. Another was an agility video on a page with videos of several other canine disciplines. AgilityAddict 15:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you familiar with the Ogg formats? I'm not sure if you're saying "I don't know what this .ogg format is or how to play it" or if you're saying "I've set up Windows Media Player to play .ogg files, but there's something wrong with this one and it doesn't work."  For the record, the Ogg formats are endorsed by Wikipedia, see Media_help.  The "Audio and Video" tab gives instructions for setting up Windows Media Player to play them.  Being in Ogg format is not, by itself, a reason to remove media (quite the contrary, actually).  -- Coneslayer 15:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Clean-up of miscellaneous edits

 * I changed the American spellings back to American spellings; Wikipedia policy is to leave as originally found unless there's a really overwhelming reason to change it (e.g., and article about a London subway station could be argued outght to be in commonwealth english).
 * I've never heard the prelimary strategizing period called a "run-through", only a "walk-through". I changed it back but left the "run-through" as an alternative term, as I'll admit that I haven't traveled 'round the world talking to competitors in other places.
 * Changed "soft-sided crates" back to crates, which is a more general term and in fact all kinds of crates are used at agility trials.
 * Removed "This is the hardest one for everyone." from the chute--it's just not true. Some dogs never do the teeter confidently. Some never do the weaves confidently. Some do the teeter the first time they see it; some do the chute the first time they see it.
 * Removed paragraph about positive reinforcement from the intro; that's useful info but not critical to understanding what dog agility the sport is. Merged later into article.
 * Details about difficulty of running a course probably don't go there, either. Merged later into article.
 * Created a new section, Philosophy of dog agility, to cover some stuff. Not sure whether this is a good title and topic, but I think so. (And I started this article way back when, so there. :-) )

Elf | Talk 03:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

--Arithmia 22:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I added AKC in the Nationals area, both the Invitational and National event.
 * I have a feeling that this article is biased towards USDAA. Most of the AKC information is very short or it mentions USDAA or NADAC.
 * I read over the Philosophy info and most of it was relevant. However, the statement about not allowing verbal correction is false. I will not edit it yet, but if you would please explain or elaborte because very often competitors will tell their dogs 'No!' or 'Argh!'.