Talk:Dog communication/Archive 1

Playful dog bow
How about when a dog stretches its front legs out and dips its head in an invitation to play? At least that was what I was told but I didn't see any mention of it in the article. Triddle 16:46, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this probably ought to be in the article more; I added a photo a couple of weeks ago. Elf | Talk 17:41, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Lip licking
There seems to be no mentioning about dog licking her lips to express submission and obeidience. This is one of the clearest and most important indicators of acknowledgement when training a dog/puppy (and, for some reason, this is not very commonly known). For example, when scolding a puppy, she indicates the understanding and submission by licking her lips (this is how the trainer knows not to carry on the scolding anymore). When a dog is caught performing a forbidden act, scolding typically produces highly emphasized licks. --Jussi Pyörre 82.133.239.189 08:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed, but this lip-licking is not the "yum" sidesweep licking of chops. This submissive licking is an in-and-out licking of the upper lip. It's quite sad to see -- THEBlunderbuss 22:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Whenever he wants to be given attention but does not want to get up for it he will lick his lips and wag his tail.

Howling
In the article, User:216.27.176.218 responded to this text:
 * In Russia, a howling dog represents a bad sign, for it is believed that howling dogs sense somebody's death somewhere in the vicinity.

With this question:
 * the foregoing statement sounds great, but who are you? what is your source for this information? are you Russian? are you German, heck are you french, or could you be yugoslavian, or a folklorist?] &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.27.176.218 (talk &bull; contribs).

Elf | Talk 20:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

An odd occurrence one day, a puppy had been brutally slaughtered on the park where I walk my mutts. Now Bach the Kelpie could not have known this, but he smelt the ground when we reached the park the next day and I let him off the lead. Then he farewelled the unfortunate little soul for about 3 minutes, leaving almost everyone in tears. I am sure he sensed the death, and possibly the nature. For several days after, he avoided the spot. (You'll be happy to know that the person responsible was immediately readmitted to secure psychiatric care, and will probably never be released.) Gordon | Talk, 22 July 2006 @13:25 UTC

Does anyone know why dogs howl to music and horns etc? Would it be something to do with an instinct response to hearing something that sounds like a how? I'm sure my dog knows that violins aren't dog's howling, but she still does it. — Soupisgoodfood 19:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It wasn't an official source, but it was on an ocarina website selling some, that the person who sells them said his dog often joins in; elsewhere, I think I read that they just join in for fun like people singing. Which explains why my doggy is happy and howls along to Mr Whippy. --Dayn 08:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Redirect?
Don't we need a redirect of Dog_Body_Language to this, or even rename this and redirect the Dog_Communication?--Nothing is free in this world 10:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Playful Growl
I've had several dogs that growl when they play, this is not mentioned anywhere in the article. Its not a sign of aggression or dominance as the article would lead you to believe all growling is. 66.215.121.208


 * I too think that this needs to modified--Nothing is free in this world 10:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Sighing
Yes, sighing. My dog Shadow will actually look at you with a "Come on, I'm bored here!" or "Come ooooooonnnn..." look (forehead/top of nose surface tilted directly at your face, looking at you with eyes looking at your face, laying down on the floor) while exhaling through his nose very slowly, as if to make sure he's heard. And he will also occasionally bump you with his head or drag his paw against you (or just lay it on your foot/ankle) when he wants your attention.

Maxaxle (talk) 00:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Reassurance ("I'm friendly, are you?")
How do you answer to this reassurance if you are a human? Stroke the dog?--213.168.119.14 (talk) 11:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Answer: Yes. Unless they won't let you touch them. In that case, give them something or reach out your hand...was it palm-up or palm-down?... while stooping to their level...But I could be wrong. Maxaxle (talk) 00:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Mock biting
I would really like to know what it means when a dog I know quite well greets me by pretending to bite my hand (he puts his mouth around my arm quite tightly, but does not hurt me in any way) and then does a submissive bow (or at least I think it is supposed to be submissive). --Heida Maria 01:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Based on my experience, that means he wants to play. The pretend bites could mean a lot of things, but "bowing" usually means means submission or playfulness, probably playfulness combined with the "bite". 76.118.2.217 (talk) 12:35, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I have had similar experience. In case fellow readers feel that this point needs elaboration, kindly consider the photos


 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/gopal1035/3260288826/
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/gopal1035/3259453041/
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/gopal1035/3259493353/ --Nothing is free in this world (talk) 16:25, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Photo Suggestions

 * [[File:Fluffy Littlefoot Dabbu, the backyard dogs playing with Vivek and Gopal 18-04-2009 08-41-19.JPG|thumb|left|To be used as an example of using an aggressive gesture for playing]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gopal1035 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

the dominance and submission stuff is very inaccurate here... dom and sub roles are still quite evident in many canines. do some research —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.10.76.215 (talk) 00:27, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

"White half moon eyes" in image description
I don't know what this phrase, "white half moon eyes," means. I've googled it, and a definition of the phrase is note readily available. Could someone who understands this phrase replace it with something more exact, like "half-lidded" or "half-closed" or anything that make sense? Thanks!Engender (talk) 20:32, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Tail asymmetry
There's a mention of "left-right" and "right-left" asymmetry of the tail dependent on the dog's relation to another creature. However, the article doesn't explain what this jargon actually means to a person like me. I'd like it if an expert could supplement the section with a simpler explanation after the current one. 71.11.170.162 (talk) 05:11, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

bay
Bay (dog) redirects here, but is not explained in the article. What does it mean ? -- Juergen (not a native English speaker) 91.52.175.48 (talk) 08:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Stamping
My last two dogs (both GSPs, males, and lived with me separately) would stamp their front legs when excited. They'd do it in anticipation of a treat or to go outside. It's rather cute and I wonder if anyone else's dog does that? - THEBlunderbuss 14:07, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's hard to describe actions in words, so I'm not completely clear on what you mean by stamping their feet. Most of my dogs sometimes switch feet back and forth quickly in excitement. Elf | Talk 17:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Stamping. But the switching is accurate enough. Cuuute! -- THEBlunderbuss 16:20, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * i have a border collie that stamps. i figured out that yes she is exited but she tends to do it more when she feels that she is not getting the attention she requires. so i feel that stamping is a dogs way of getting the owner/handler to focus on them.

I haven't seen a clear explanation of the play bow (i.e. why isn't another gesture used?). Someone said the gesture was like a submissive crouch but I'm not sure what that is. My own observation is that the position is a good position for controlling friction in tug-of-wars. They seem to have a little more control than lying flat (for more surface area). So, perhaps it is a strategic get low position that still expresses I'm ready to pull backwards.EdgarBT (talk) 16:55, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

wrong
this not communication this just motion,name article insults and absurd -- CYl7EPTEMA777 (talk) 19:00, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

untitled section
--131.239.18.4 (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2014 (UTC) Hi, Yes Dogs Do Smile - my dog, a Chinese Crested mix (a breed known for smiles), grins, and sometimes squints his eyes as well to mimic a human smile. He does this as a social greeting, and uses his smile in the same situations humans do - when I come home from work, he grins from ear to ear while wagging his tail, sometime he flashes a grin to difuse tension, just like humans do. He smiles at people he knows and people he doesn't know. Hey humans, we are not the only creatures on the planet with a brain or with emotions. We are animals too - the Human animal. Thank goodness scientists are catching up on the range of emotions and depth of intelligence of those we share the planet with. I hope then it will lead to human beings treating other animals much better than we do now. 131.239.18.4 (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2014 (UTC)Jane Elizabeth

Growling
My dog growls to go outside. If we ignore her, she barks. This is not something we taught her. It appears she uses her growl as a "quiet bark". Is that unique to her? 155.213.224.59 (talk) 18:39, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

merge with dog behavior

 * merge with dog behavior — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.103.50 (talk) 00:40, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Why? To achieve what objective? William Harris  •   talk •   11:21, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: Since discussion at Talk:Dog behavior seems to have reached consensus, and the OP for this section was over a year ago, I've closed this discussion. Feel free to start a new merger proposal if you feel this was in error. --Vandraedha (talk) 16:35, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Dogs can talk
This is a question aimed at DrChrissy. What material did I remove? As far as I can tell, I only added to this article, without deleting anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SQMeaner (talk • contribs) 17:15, 19 February 2015 (UTC) This is a different question aimed at ohnoitsjamie. What makes you think either of the dogs in the videos I posted had their behavior reinforced with treats? As far as I'm aware, neither the videos nor the articles containing the videos make any mention of the dogs' behavior being reinforced with treats, or indeed being reinforced at all.SQMeaner (talk) 18:36, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My apologies. For some reason, I misread the differences between the versions and thought material had been removed.  I was mistaken, and I sincerely apologise for the revert.__DrChrissy (talk) 20:34, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * : A dog making a sound that sounds vaguely like human communication is not the same thing as talking. If I tell my dog to sit, she will sit, regardless of whether I have give her a treat. That doesn't change the fact that I had to train her to sit via Operant conditioning. OhNo itsJamie  Talk 20:38, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Operant conditioning vs spontaneous activity is a straw man. A dog performing a trick is still exhibiting a behavior (whether it is natural or learned). Although talking animal disagrees, I know for a fact that some dogs (particularly the vocal breeds like huskies, malamutes, and hounds), will attempt to mimic simple parts of human speech in an attempt at communication. I've personally had a terrier ask me for a "rone" and a husky tell me "no, no, no" when I was doing something that she obviously didn't want to happen. Arguably, whether it is mimicry, trained, or "natural behavior"... if it conveys meaning to a second party, it is (even if severely limited) communication. If that same dog were to bark and scratch at a door, or bring me a toy, there would be little argument that it is communicating with me (I want out, I want to play). However, the commonly held belief is that dogs don't "talk". Unfortunately, all of my arguments are original research, and Wikipedia doesn't generally accept original research. I don't know of any studies done that conclusively prove that dogs are using "cognitive speech via mimicry" vs. a "random reinforced vocalization". If you find any such studies, please be sure to cite them for the article.  --Vandraedha (talk) 13:54, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I concur. Dogs, similar to most other mammals, have a vocal chord and have been living with we humans for 15,000+ years, and all they lack is the gene responsible for assembling language in their brain. That is likely to be one of the next steps in their evolution (where did people think that this was going? They already eat - and are able to fully metabolize - pizza!). However, humans will not accept that this gene mutation has arrived until the first dog clearly states "No!" - it is possibly only a matter of time. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   21:22, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Improvement needed to this article
Hello all. After some initial weeding and pruning of dead wood in this article, what becomes clear is that the main problem is much of the material under Visual communication and Auditory communication remains uncited - all of the information under the sub-headings e.g. Teeth baring, Growl, Howls. This page was established by User:Lachatdelarue in 2004 and who ceased activity in 2008, so we cannot ask the original editor where it came from. However, keying a few phrases from the sub-headings into a search engine shows that much of it has come from http://www.seizetheleash.com/ however that website does not cite where the original information came from. Does anybody have any views on how we might approach improving this article, please? Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   12:33, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This matter has now been actioned. William Harris  •   talk •   11:07, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Talking doggerel section
I know that this will upset some, but I really think the entire "Talking Doggerel" section should be deleted (or perhaps have just a passing mention). This section is about the way that humans behave towards animals, not the way that dogs communicate. In my opinion it is non-encyclopaedic and certainly requires more than only 1 accessible source for verification for such a large section. DrChrissy (talk) 23:46, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree and find the sole reference to be rather suspect given that it is a manual on how one can learn to communicate with your dog. As far as I have found on Google Scholar, the author, Stanley Coren, appears to be a neuropsychologist with published research on lateralization and no mention of work on ethology. Without more information about his authority on the issue, the reference, by itself, is a weak secondary source and the section should be considered for deletion. Maccaughanc (talk) 06:09, 29 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Disagree for 3 reasons.

I am happy for DrChrissy to prune it severely, but I think mentioning the topic in some form has merit. NB: I do not watch this page. Regards, William Harris  •   talk •   10:53, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Stanley Coren would rank as the grand-master of dog intelligence (where have you people been over the past 30 years?). Goggle Scholar eh? "A weak secondary source" - you will need to explain how so? I find it curious because this whole article is based on Coren yet there is no criticism of him elsewhere in it. Prior to this, the article was based on copy-and-paste from dog training websites without citation. Feel free to do some research for other research that supports it - I am sure it is out there.
 * 2) "Dog communication is about how dogs "speak" to each other, how they understand messages that humans send to them, and how humans can translate the ideas that dogs are trying to transmit", so it says at the start of the article. So I assume how humans behave towards the dog fits if the dog responds in some way. Which they do - here I disagree with Coren because there is a response from the dog. (The proof is in observation - I do this daily.) And if there is a response, there is communication.
 * 3) Have you not looked at the world around you and how people talk to their dogs? Do you not recognise this? Do you even own a dog?

Dominance
I believe there is a misunderstanding of the words "dominance" and "submission" in this article. The author states "Dominance and submission are often mistaken to be part of normal social behaviors for dogs. They are not." The word "dominant" does not imply aggression, or intimidation. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dominant It is pretty much established that most canines form packs given the opportunity, and that said packs have established leaders and followers. Implicit in this, is the fact that canine packs have a social hierarchy. Aggressive physical confrontations are generally avoided as the injury of a single member can jeopardize the survival of the pack. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N-7H1sSDck The hierarchical structure of the pack is established and reinforced by communicative sounds and body language including dominant and submissive gestures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw3q3FIv4SU Many human dog owners are unaware of these innate canine communicative gestures and consequently confuse their dog as to their position in the "pack". This can result in anxiety and behavioral problems in the canine. https://k9densolutions.com/The_Pack_Leader.html DAS2011 (talk) 02:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

"Dominance only occurs when resources like food and space are limited. Therefore dominance can be displayed in canines that are in captivity. In the wild dominance is rare; the most suited one will become the "pack leader"."

This statement seems out of place on this page-- it seems more relevant to, say, the Dog_behavior page rather than the dog communication page... and it's contradicting the information there: "In wild wolf packs, displays of dominance have been observed [...]". Shadowstar (talk) 02:57, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The entire article is in major need of an overhaul. It reads like a dog-owner telling you their own personal interpretation of Fluffy's behavior. Even the facts that seem valid are still folk psychology.  It needs to be replaced with a good overview of the scientific study of canine communication.  Once thats done, minor issues like this should become moot.--Thesoxlost (talk) 05:16, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well put--almost all folk psychology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.3.109.197 (talk) 08:12, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of dominance, what about a dog laying a front paw on a person's foot? Supposedly it's a sign of wanting attention, or maybe "I own you."... Maxaxle (talk) 00:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It's unclear to me when the comment about the article needing a "major overhaul" was made in relationship to any revisions. Regardless of the timing, the comment's wholesale dismissiveness and thoughtlessness put it out of bounds. Even if the article had exhibited errors in tone and documentation, such a comment would be inappropriate and unhelpful. But this article's claims are well documented, and the tone is aptly neutral. A very interesting and thorough entry!

Please think twice before pouncing on a fellow author. If you have a suggestion, make it specific, and offer it with generosity. Thanks. KC 03:15, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

comment
Okay, but what does it mean when a dog cocks his head? &mdash; Phil Welch 30 June 2005 10:25 (UTC)
 * It's an inquisitive gesture, just like in humans. The dog is paying closer attention to something. Lachatdelarue (talk) 30 June 2005 14:44 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought, but I suppose there should be something in the article about it since it's a fairly common gesture among dogs. &mdash; Phil Welch 30 June 2005 19:33 (UTC)

This should be addressed on the dog behaviour page Walshanna (talk) 15:12, 29 September 2018 (UTC)