Talk:Don't Eat the Pictures

Lyrics
Someone entered the lyrics for all the songs on this film but I have removed all of them since this is entirely WP:Copyright and WP:OR so I am keeping an eye on this article. trainfan01 —Preceding undated comment added 04:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC).

Additionally it also has made the article very long. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trainfan01 (talk • contribs) 02:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: move to Don't Eat the Pictures. There is consensus that the parenthetical "(special)" is unnecessary, but no clear consensus on whether the subtitle should be added. Cúchullain t/ c 15:42, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Don& → Don't Eat the Pictures: Sesame Street at the Metropolitan Museum of Art – Don't Eat the Pictures: Sesame Street at the Metropolitan Museum of Art is the official name of the special, so the move should not be controversial. It needs an administrator to move the page over the existing redirect.Scanlan (talk) 10:20, 26 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - not so sure about the assertion that this is not controversial.  On 30 July 2007‎, Don't Eat the Pictures: Sesame Street at the Metropolitan Museum of Art moved to Don't Eat the Pictures (special).  As it has stayed at the current title for five years, I think this needs review by those familiar with naming conventions for this type of article. Wikipedia often prefers common names over official names as article titles. Wbm1058 (talk) 12:36, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - Excellent point! I didn't catch my wording. I should have put "so the move should not be controversial" (I'll change that now). I see your point of view with the article's title as well. However, I think the present title stayed for five years because this is an article about relatively little known (but very fun) TV film with low user traffic. (The article averages about 30 hits on most days). Scanlan (talk) 21:07, 26 August 2012 (UTC)


 *  weak Support. I have no idea (before today) what "Don't Eat the Pictures" is about, but the subtitle Sesame Street at the Metropolitan Museum of Art makes it immediately clear to me what it's about. Don't Eat the Pictures (song) was merged into this article, and Don't Eat the Pictures redirects here, so parenthetical disambiguation is not necessary—and (special) does a poor job of disambiguation: special what?. So whether or not the subtitle is added, "(special)" should be removed from the title. Wbm1058 (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose; the subtitle is unnecessary and unwieldy. Simple Don't Eat the Pictures will suffice.  Powers T 01:06, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Powers, support his alternate proposal. --BDD (talk) 22:11, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Support; either the first proposed title or Powers' new proposal of Don't Eat the Pictures. The current title is not appropriate. bobrayner (talk) 17:02, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment – In support of leaving out the subtitle, we have Street Gang: The Complete History of Sesame Street (red link!), which redirects to Street Gang (another red link!), (street gang?) – err, uh Street Gang (book). I think parenthetical disambiguation should be used here—if the subtitle isn't used to DAB—but it's poorly handled.  I'll look for more clarity on the Wikipedia policy towards subtitles. - Wbm1058 (talk) 14:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment – But in support of subtitles, we have Children and Television: Lessons from Sesame Street, not Children and Television. Wbm1058 (talk) 14:15, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment – seems there is considerable de facto support for using subtitles: Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War vs. Germs, Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex vs. Bonk, Against Civilization: Readings and Reflections vs. Against Civilization, Dark Pools: High-Speed Traders, A.I. Bandits, and the Threat to the Global Financial System vs. Dark Pools.  While the first two short titles need disambiguation, in the latter examples, the short title redirects to the full title or red links. – Wbm1058 (talk) 14:42, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Policy – Books: WP:NCB, but Naming conventions (films) doesn't give guidance except indirectly: Each word in a film title takes an initial capital, except for articles ("a", "an", "the"), the word "to" as part of an infinitive, prepositions, or coordinating conjunctions that are four letters or shorter (e.g., "on", "from", "and", "with"), unless they begin or end a title or subtitle, implying that using subtitles is acceptable but not explicitly saying whether subtitles should always be used. Alas, the term "subtitle" does not appear at all in Naming conventions (television). – Wbm1058 (talk) 15:10, 25 September 2012 (UTC)  Nor does the term "subtitle"appear in Naming conventions (music), recall there is a song by this name which is sung in the TV special. However Naming conventions (video games) does give guidance on subtitles: Use the most commonly accepted English name first, if one exists. This is usually the official title in the initial English release, but not always. Subtitles and pre-titles are allowed if deemed appropriate but are not necessary ...Disambiguate using numerics and subtitles when part of the official title – Wbm1058 (talk) 15:26, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment – and the main policy WP:NC doesn't have the term "subtitle" in it either. We do have under WP:NC: Usually, titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but no more precise than that. By that, Don't Eat the Pictures is sufficient. However, there is also: Exceptions to the precision criterion, validated by consensus, may sometimes result from the application of some other naming criteria. Most of these exceptions are described in specific Wikipedia guidelines, such as Primary topic, Geographic names, or Names of royals and nobles. For instance: Bothell is precise enough to be unambiguous, but not as commonly used and easily recognizable as the preferred and more precise title Bothell, Washington (see Geographic names, and the naturalness and recognizability criteria).  By that, I would argue that Don't Eat the Pictures is precise enough to be unambiguous, but not as commonly used and easily recognizable as the preferred and more precise title Don't Eat the Pictures: Sesame Street at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. – Wbm1058 (talk) 15:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I would be quite surprised to find that the use of the subtitle was more common than its omission. Powers T 15:09, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You may be right, though amazon uses the subtitle. I think this should be closed out with a move to Don't Eat the Pictures, and no consensus for including the subtitle in the title.  I note that the full title is boldfaced in the lead sentence, and would like it to stay that way. Wbm1058 (talk) 13:04, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Review
Against Big Bird, The Gods Themselves Contend In Vain --Pawyilee (talk) 07:16, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia guideline for subtitles
According to Naming conventions (books):

"Usually, a Wikipedia article on a book (or other medium, such as a movie, TV special or video game) does not include its subtitle in the Wikipedia page name, per WP:CONCISE. The only exception to that is short article titles, for disambiguation purposes."

This is what User:Wbm1058 quoted at Talk:PTSD (album), where the result of the move request for PTSD (album) was "Not moved". --2601:646:9280:BA70:EC62:B745:175:2A21 (talk) 22:28, 13 January 2018 (UTC)