Talk:Don Black (white supremacist)

RfC
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

White supremacist label
Considering WP:BLP, is there just cause to describe him as a white supremacist? If he describes himself in this way, then it makes sense, however if he does not, it is a violation of BLP. Not even David Duke is described as a white supremacist in the lead of that article. Laval (talk) 17:00, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not against BLP to describe him as a White Supremacist if there are multiple reliable sources that do that. It might be a good idea to provide attribution and his own selfidentification as well.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:20, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * While it might not technically be against BLP, I fail to see how the sense in titling this page like his detractors, especially when we already have the Don_Black_(white_nationalist) page. It hurts the page's WP:NPOV. I propose we transfer the content of this page to there, and instead make this the redirect. This will make the page more impartial and further Wikipedia's interests.
 * Please give me your thoughts. TheDaJakester''User talk:TheDaJakester 21:50, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No, because he's known primarily as a white supremacist, and the purpose of the parenthetical disambiguation description is to describe him accurately, not to rehabilitate his public image by using a euphemistic substitute. Rockypedia (talk) 01:18, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Is "Nazi" short for "National Socialist" when used as part of the phrase "Neo-nazi" or otherwise?
Not in English. Only when used in reference to the actual Nazi party of actual Germany. According to the OED this usage is historical: "1. A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (now hist.); a member of any similar organization. Also more generally, usu. in pl.: the German government or armed forces in the period 1933–45 (now hist.)." whereas the meaning in this article, the current meaning according to the OED is: "2a. In extended use: a believer in or sympathizer with the aims or doctrines of Nazism or any similar doctrines. Also more generally: a person holding extreme racist (esp. anti-Semitic) or authoritarian views, or behaving in a brutal and bigoted manner." The definition of "neo-Nazi" doesn't even mention the party: "A. adj. Supporting or imbued with neo-Nazism or its characteristic attitudes, behaviour, ideologies, etc." &mdash; alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 21:02, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Family
Let us remove the details about his family: BLP and out of the scope. Zezen (talk) 06:19, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

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Change title to "Don Black (White Power figure)"
White supremacy is not a notable trait. Black is important because of his influence and connections in a broader social movement. 2603:7000:D03A:5895:244F:F822:E837:F619 (talk) 13:07, 26 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Sources dictate whether a trait is notable, how is it not notable? "White Supremacy" as well, can be considered a movement. FutureFlowsLoveYou (talk) 13:20, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with Future. Don Black is mainly notable due to his WS activities. DN (talk) 20:09, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * But he's not notable for his white supremacy. He's notable for using white supremacy and evangelical Christianity to justify war against the federal government. This is why him being a former mercenary should be in the first sentence. Being racist in and of itself isn't notable and it shouldn't get you a Wikipedia article. 2603:7000:D03A:5895:9881:3137:D82D:5A49 (talk) 14:34, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * This is also why Stormfront is a white power forum, not racist AND antisemitic AND islamophobic etc. The relevant detail is that it encourages violence against the state. 2603:7000:D03A:5895:9881:3137:D82D:5A49 (talk) 14:37, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * "But he's not notable for his white supremacy" Sources tend to disagree with you on that. The Bayou of Pigs is already talked about in the lead, also, this article isn't strictly about Stormfront or your interpretations. Black's present activities do not negate his past activities. If you want to build consensus for changes moving forward, my best advice is to start with what is prevalent among high quality sources. Changing from white supremacist to "white power" does not seem to be an improvement or more accurate in that regard. Cheers. DN (talk) 17:25, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I strongly suggest you read "Bring the War Home" by Kathleen Belew (https://archive.org/details/bring-the-war-home-the-white-power-movement-and-paramilitary-america-kathleen-belew-z-library/). Among other things, she points out that "high quality sources" like the NYT failed to connect domestic terrorism to the broader cell-driven, leaderless resistance of the Turner Diaries and militant hate groups. As I've said, there's a difference between racists and militant racists with blood and marriage connections to several hate groups. 2603:7000:D03A:5895:A966:1F36:D209:B667 (talk) 11:15, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion, I will take some time to read it. DN (talk) 19:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's great, but just because YOU haven't read it doesn't mean you should spoil it for the rest of us. If I edit the first few sentences, is Wikipedia going to let it stand or they immediately going to change it back? 2603:7000:D03A:5895:D901:AA0:611A:3336 (talk) 22:09, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If you want to learn how to participate in building Wikipedia and make changes, you will need to learn the rules and processes, just as the rest of us have. I suggest going to Teahouse. Best of luck. Bye bye now. DN (talk) 22:17, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Recent citation and clarification tags in Stormfront section
edit 1: "Stormfront housed a library of white pride, neo-Nazi, and white power skinhead graphics for downloading, and a number of links to other white nationalist websites." (Any serious doubt here, really?)

edit 2: "The Stormfront forum acts as one of the largest online gatherings of racism and Holocaust deniers in the world, with threads on this theme gaining hundreds of thousands of views. A number of radio shows published by Black's web site have featured Holocaust denial." (the citation is literally right there)

edit 3: "In 1999, Black created the website "martinlutherking.org", which is administered by Stormfront. This website was created to malign the character of Dr King. In January 2018, the site remained online and surpassed sites containing reliable content in Google search results. Today, the website is not accessible." (again, the citation is there, even if there's a soft paywall)

I will also add that there were no edit summaries for any of these tags, and no discussions have been added besides this one. I suggest reverting, but if someone wants to add citations and or change placement of the references, knock yourself out, but these tags seem quite pointless. Cheers. DN (talk) 09:04, 9 November 2023 (UTC)