Talk:Donald Neilson

Moved from the DRV
These comments were left at the DRV after it had concluded:

Recreation as a stub Is not enough access to the original history would greatly aid in the creation the article so I say could we have original article resotred and then updated to this stub version so the history can be accessed? I also disagree that the person who deleted the article closed the deletion review.--Lucy-marie 11:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's at http://skcentral.com/readarticle.php?article_id=604 - verbatim, I think. Guy (Help!) 23:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, categorising this as a stub when there was once a full-scale, accurate, fair biographical article on Neilson here is nothing short of imbecilic. Those of us who contributed to make it the readable and comprehensive account it once was should feel rather annoyed. Not to mention confused. Let's just get it restored. Bentley Banana 14:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

If it's a stub then bring back some of the decent stuff from the past that someone/thing has hacked out without replacement leaving this as a stub, that's what I say! Why on earth did this once get deleted, I was a boy when Nielson was at large and I recall it all very clearly, it was major news. Gomez2002 (talk) 14:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

whoever keeps updating the article please double check your facts. for instance neilson was not sentenced or tried for the death of smith. the case lay on file. also the taxi fact is dubious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.54.50.219 (talk) 16:26, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Backwards
Shouldnt the article be on whittle with a redirect from Neilson. This version of combining the two persons seems to give undue weight to the glorification of the murderer at the expense of the victim. Is that what our encyclopedia stands for? Hadrianheugh 16:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Not really because it's an article on Neilson, who is a multiple murderer. Gomez2002 (talk) 14:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Serial killer?
In the answer above the term 'multiple murderer' is used. Isn't this more accurate than 'serial killer'?

In the wikipedia entry on serial killers we can read Most criminals who commit multiple murders for material ends (such as Mafia hit men) are not classed as serial killers, because they are motivated by economic gain rather than psychopathological compulsion. As Neilson's murders happened as part of post-office robberies and as a kidnap/extortion is there any evidence to show the killing was either pre-meditated or the reason for the other crimes being committed? (83.13.39.98 (talk) 18:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC))


 * I think we need to revisit this issue. From my interpretation of the serial killer article, Neilson is not a serial killer. I think the term "multiple murderer" is more appropriate. Neilson did not kill for the thrill of the kill, but rather killed incidentally to his main objectives -- theft and kidnapping for ransom.--ukexpat (talk) 22:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Definitely not a serial killer. Simply murdering two or more people does not make a person a serial killer, not by accurate standards anyway, which is why a gang member who has murdered two or more people is not automatically a serial killer. Therefore, minutes ago, I reverted this addition of "serial killer" by an IP and tweaked the wording to this. Flyer22 (talk) 19:14, 17 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Neilson had already murdered three people in separate incidents with a 'cooling off period' between each one, prior to kidnapping Whittle. Even if it wasn't his plan to kill Whittle, he was convicted of murdering her. He wasn't a hitman or gang member, he was a lone predator. To say that killing in connection with a financial motive disqualifies him as a serial killer would mean that we'd not be able to describe 'black widows' (women who murder a succession of partners for their estates/life insurance) as serial killers. Jim Michael (talk) 12:31, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Staffordshire or Shropshire?
Was Miss Whittle from Staffordshire or Shropshire? (83.13.39.98 (talk) 18:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC))


 * From Shropshire, body found in Staffordshire. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/14/newsid_2530000/2530669.stm Kostia (talk) 03:33, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Post mortem
Removed the comment "Though the cause of death was believed to be strangulation, a post-mortem revealed that she had died from terror and shock" <-- not only is this not cited or referenced, but I'm not entirely sure that it is medically possible to 'die from terror' (!). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.65.225 (talk) 14:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * dont be so hasty heres a reference http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/39Black-panther39-must-die-in.4180077.jp

'SHOCK N TERROR' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.87.175 (talk) 19:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Conviction of officer
Have removed the reference to Tony White, one of the arresting officers. Whilst White was convicted of a very serious offence over twenty-five years later, the event bears no relation to the activities of Neilson and therefore adds nothing to this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.8.86.9 (talk) 20:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Span
The span of the killings seems to be wrong. It does not agree with the Crime and Investigation site, mentioned at the bottom of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.47.143 (talk) 11:53, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Both sources give 1974. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.45.123 (talk) 12:08, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Translation, please
Section "Turn to crime", first sentence: "A jobbing builder...". What does that mean? I understand that as a British subject the article should use British spelling, but that seems to be slang. As a US English speaker I find "a jobbing builder" impenetrable. Translation, please. Better yet, change the article, don't answer here. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 14:35, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * For the benefit of others, a jobbing builder is someone who does various small bits of work for other people. It's someone you might get in to rebuild your garden wall, or build a small extension, or put up some new shelves.  Sorry, I don't know what the US translation would be.  Handyman perhaps?  RedTomato 15:49, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, a jobbing builder is someone without a specialist skill who does many short-term building jobs, who does not have regular work and does not usually do long-term projects. They are of lower pay, qualification and status in comparison to people who build houses. Jim Michael (talk) 19:38, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

There is a listing in the 1964 Bradford phone book as follows. Nappey D, Joiner, 1129 Grangefield av,3. This was of course Neilsons home at the time of his arrest.

Sub-post office
Is there an article about sub-post offices? As an American As a USian As someone whose country does not use it, is there any way to link or explicate what a sub-post office is? 71.234.215.133 (talk) 14:50, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It's like a corner shop with a small post-office inside.  Kind of like a tiny independent 7-11 (not a chain shop), usually in a small village, with one counter that is part of Postal Services, accepting & giving government paperwork services i.e. social security payments, car tax payments, passport applications etc. RedTomato 188.220.45.209 (talk) 15:53, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A 'Crown Post Office' (increasingly rare) is nothing but a post office, and is owned and operated by Post Office Ltd. A sub-post office - as described above - has other functions and is operated under contract, as a kind of franchise. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:55, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Trial & conviction
'Dr Milne's examination found no evidence of insanity. The psychiatrist told the defence team, "I've examined him and he's the classic psychopath of all time."' This is an obvious contradiction, but I don't know which is right, so can someone who knows about the subject change it? Thanks. VenomousConcept (talk) 09:13, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

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Other facts Harry Hawkes and Geoffrey heindrick (Neilsons painting tutor) Plus long research

With many years research and mostly factual details many people who have studied Neilsons case since his arrest would guess it did not make complete sense. Because I am talking much broader than the known version of events perhaps those who have more insight into his modus operandi would fully understand. His modus operandi! he said he broke in around 400 houses using a brace and bit, he then used the same MO in later years to start his post office raids. My belief is he only admitted what he thought they could actually prove, he would have used whatever MO the particular crime required, even though he was tarred with the brace and bit or other drilling methods. I would say he broke in more post offices and other establishments than was actually accredited to him, tools he was found with tell a bigger story. What about post office stock? Neilson stole probably more in stock than actual cash. Although some was found most was not, stock that would be untraceable and easily sold. What happened to all the stolen cash? Neilson was wanting to move to another house shortly before being caught, the house fell through when he could not raise the £1,850.00 the seller required? He was really intrested in this house and visited several times with Irene and Kathryn.

Were others involved? Although on the whole this is doubtfull where is the line drawn, was he always a loner? Did he also have a fence (buyer of stolen goods) How do we know Neilson was not a burglar from an early age, after all he was caught trying to break in a shop age 11. A lady who lodged with the Neilsons in the 1960s says Donald and Irene would often go out between 10pm and 10.30pm this lady would babysit young Kathryn, she was unaware what time they retured or where they had been? This was a strange time to go out in those days. Not everything in the Neilsons home was hidden, what about his operations book of crime kept in a livingroom drawer? I would say he was very very lucky not to be caught sooner, look how easy he was caught. Black panther, more like the later pink panther tag he was given in prison (then pinky) Anyone in 1975 walking down a road with an holdall at 10.30pm was prime target for the police to stop and search. The same area he was caught in he had broken into 15 houses 2 weeks before capture. It does seem one of the areas he favoured was Mansfield as he had commited many crimes around the Nottinghamshire area. Even a non criminal could see returning to the same areas would be crazy, he was being hunted nationwide at that time.

Leslie Whittle, we will never know the truth about how she died. In my view she was left on the drain platform when Neilson panicked and left her there to starve. One just cannot imagine the terrible ordeal that poor young girl went through. In my opinion i do not think Doctor Hugo Milne quite picked up on how devious Neilson was. Much of what we know about Neilson is in his own words, this was also carried forward by Doctor Milne. I also note that Milne wrote a later court report for the Yorkshire ripper Peter Sutcliffe in the early 1980s. The court and jury appeared to give very little credence to Dr Milnes evidence in this case. One of the facts thats obvious, Neilson killed with little thought except for his own preservation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drilled (talk • contribs) 13:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

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