Talk:Donna Hylton

Potential references

 * https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/01/30/donna-hylton-background/
 * https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/does-sexual-abuse-early-in-life-justify-later-misdeeds-the-case-of-donna-hylton/2018/07/19/f6048bb8-4bef-11e8-84a0-458a1aa9ac0a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2a1ddfc3b679
 * http://www.donnahylton.com/
 * https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199507/crime-and-punishment
 * http://www.nytimes.com/1985/04/08/nyregion/the-city-7-held-in-slaying-of-man-in-trunk.html
 * https://casetext.com/case/hylton-v-perez
 * http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/Seven-Arraigned-In-Kidnap-Beating-Death-of-Long-Island-Businessman/id-238bc4f1039577402504b84eca4515d0
 * https://books.google.com/books?id=3YpvDgvz4XoC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=girl+gang+april+8,+1985&source=bl&ots=l1_ZVuLA4I&sig=XmNi4DJH9ue4TF0hoFB5eNvTtHM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDscmRgeTRAhVBMyYKHR0JDo0Q6AEIJzAC#v=onepage&q=girl%20gang%20april%208%2C%201985&f=false
 * http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bayview-correctional-facility-women_us_587d090de4b0b3c7a7b24c2f
 * http://www.filipinoreporter.us/home/filipino-american/1635-after-27-yrs-in-ny-jail-rich-con-gains-freedom.html
 * http://deadline.com/2016/11/rosario-dawson-activist-donna-hylton-a-little-piece-of-light-movie-1201852430/

BLP violations
Some editor(s) keep on adding uncited statements such as social media reactions to Hylton's appearance at the Women's March. These are BLP violations - please wait until you can find a reliable source. StAnselm (talk) 20:11, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Editors will find that the cited Psychology Today article is clearly biased and tabloid in nature. The article is repeatedly being used to claim that Hylton "raped and tortured" the deceased which is untrue. That statement is only listed in Psychology Today and no other source. Truthhistorian1 (talk) 23:23, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

BOLD, revert, discuss
Repeated attempts have been made to edit the portion of Donna's page titled "Murder of Thomas Vigliarolo" in this section it presently says "While imprisoned, three men and four women, including Hylton, starved, burned, beat, sexually assaulted, raped, and tortured Vigliarolo." however this sentence structure implies that Hylton participated in the sexual assault and rape of Vigliarolo which is incorrect. The article that has been cited for this claim says that she was witness to a rape which is different than saying she sexually assaulted or raped the deceased. This is a misrepresentation of the truth. User:@SamHolt6 ask that I discuss it here for review. Additionally, the lead to Donna's page is misleading as it says Hylton was sentenced "for her role in the kidnapping, rape, torture, and murder" which is untrue as she was sentenced for only murder and kidnapping. Truthhistorian1 (talk) 23:10, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * thanks for starting the thread. Please note that, given the recent edit history of the article, you should refrain from editing the article until I have made some sort of response. As far as said response is concerned, I will break it down using bullet points.

This is my response. I am requesting we continue to abide by WP:BRD, and will note that WP:NOCON is in place; the article should be returned to it's last stable version if the content being changed is contested to.--SamHolt6 (talk) 23:53, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * To begin, the sentence in the lead that is being object to is correct, and the objection may be on the basis of an improper understanding of sentence structure. The portion of the sentence is "her role in the kidnapping, rape, torture, and murder of Thomas Vigliarolo". This sentence is correct, as it clearly defines that Hylton was sentenced for her role in the crime that was perpetrated against Thomas Vigliarolo; it does not indicated that Hylton was sentenced for all of the crimes listed. It is also an accurate reflection of the psychology today article that is cited, effectively replacing the article's use of participation with role.
 * There is some objection to the use of a 1995 article in Physiology Today, which Truthhistorian1 has denoted and removed as a tabloid. The magazine is, for the record, not described as a tabloid on its Wiki article (how meta, I know), and (more importantly) I have not found a verdict on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard striking down the article as a reliable source; thus, it should remain and can be cited.
 * As noted by Truthhistorian1, it can be noted that Hylton was a witness the to crime. This claim comes from the cited Psychology Today article as cited above. However, the claim is primary (WP:PRIMARY), as it comes from Hyltons own account (she is quoted in the article), and thus it has far less weight to it and is discountable when compared to quotes/descriptions provided by impartial parties in the Psychology Today article, including those made by the respective article's author.
 * Thank you for your time, I understand now that the article should not have been edited until I received a response. I am at a disadvantage here as I am not versed in Wikipedia jargon, nor am I versed in the editing processes/structures but as a reader, and not an editor of Wikipedia I am making the following appeals to you:


 * Because Donna was not convicted for rape, sexual assault, or torture (from a reader's perspective) there is no reason (and is perhaps a bit libelous) to have Donna Hylton's name unnecessarily listed with those crimes. Because the lay person (such as myself) may not article entries closely, so including these crimes, for which she was not convicted, appears to be inflammatory and unnecessary.
 * At the very least I would ask that a parenthetical statement be included that plainly states that Donna Hylton did not rape, sexually assault, or torture the deceased because that is what the courts found as a fact.
 * While Psychology Today is not listed as a tabloid we must take into consideration the atmosphere under which the article was written (i.e. being 1995 at the height of mass incarceration, and the unnecessary references to Hylton's appearance and the number of statements that appear to be opinions of the author and not material fact, I am inclined to believe that the article is an unreliable source.
 * Donna Hylton is a real person who is working on reentering into society. Having Google Search results inaccurately portray her as a rapist (as having the word rape immediately next to her name in search results thanks to this article) will undoubtedly be harmful to her, and on that basis I am asking you to allow the changes to be made. Truthhistorian1 (talk) 00:07, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * At least we are having a fruitful discourse. I will make a bullet by bullet response to your comments, as before.
 * To begin, my point about the contested sentence stands; the article makes it clear in other ways (later in the article, the infobox, etc) that Hylton was only convicted for second-degree murder and kidnapping. Further more, as seen in the Snopes and Psychology Today article, focus is placed on the crime as a whole, with both articles making detailed, in-depth descriptions of the "Kidnapping, rape, torture, and murder" of Thomas Vigliarolo, committed during which crime Hylton is notable for. I should also point out WP:CENSOR and note that Wikipedia is not to be censored, and certainly not to be curtailed to shape up a subject's image in a google search; that falls under WP:NOT.
 * Per my comment above, I have found no thread in which the Psychology Today article cited has been struck down as a reliable source of information; indeed, even the Snopes article cited by Truthhistorian1 links directly to the 1995 Psychology Today article. Per Wikipedia policy on reliable sources, sources are considered to be reliable until they have been discounted via some sort of discussion; one can be started at Reliable sources/Noticeboard if anyone were so inclined.
 * My third comment steals from my first; Wikipedia is not censored, and is first and foremost an encyclopedia. In this function, Wikipedia reflects what is recorded by reliable sources, and the vast weight of them tie Hylton to the crimes perpetrated against Vigliarolo; thus, the sentence as it stands is accurate, as it accurately reflects that Hylton is best known "for her role in the kidnapping, rape, torture, and murder of Thomas Vigliarolo", which, on the basis of the sources cited, she is.--SamHolt6 (talk) 00:44, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

COI
On October 26, 2018, Truthhistorian1 repeatedly edited Donna Hylton. In the interest of avoiding conflict of interest, I request clarification of Truthhistorian1's real-life relationship with Donna Hylton. KalHolmann (talk) 00:47, 27 October 2018 (UTC)