Talk:Doo-wop/Archive 2

How weird
I had never heard of any "doo wop" genre of music until recently. The article is factitious because it emphasizes a thing which never existed in the past. Music was called Rock and Roll music, not "doo wop." An NPOV tag is deserved and appropriate.
 * HeyYallYo (talk) 07:08, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's not really a NPOV dispute; it's an accuracy dispute. In any case, I think the existence of doo wop is well established (James Miller's Flowers in the Dustbin is one source of many). There was never a time when all music was called "rock and roll". If you'd like to add a different viewpoint on what doo wop is, please cite a reliable source neutrally. I'm removing the NPOV. 08:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TUF-KAT (talk • contribs)
 * I AM NOT "DISPUTING" ANYTHING. Negroes never sang any "doo wop" songs.  They sang songs which were not known as "doo wop."
 * HeyYallYo (talk) 18:22, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Rhythm and Blues, Soul, etal., were music fields that existed in the 1950s, but not "doo wop."
 * HeyYallYo (talk) 08:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you're saying. Are you suggesting this article be renamed, rewritten or deleted? In any case, the fact that the term "doo wop" wasn't common during the doo wop era doesn't really matter. If you'd like to make any changes, please cite a source in line with Wikipedia policies. Tuf-Kat (talk) 02:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. In classical music, for instance, Baroque music wasn't called "Baroque" at that time but history at some point decided that it should be. Marcus2 (talk) 23:13, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Coincidence?
According to the Rolling Stones Illustrated History of Rock & Roll - two of the best known proto doo-wop acts of the early 50's were the Orioles and Ravens... Ironically those are the nicknames of the two major pro sports teams in Baltimore. Just a thought.

17:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.159.210.66 (talk)


 * Actually, in the 50s the Baltimore NFL team was the Colts, who later moved to Indianapolis, and then the Cleveland Browns relocated to Baltimore and renamed themselves the Ravens. If the group the Orioles had any connection to Baltimore, there might be something in that, otherwise this is just a meaningless tidbit without any significance. Unless you're suggesting that some 50s doo-wop group was clairvoyant regarding team movement in the NFL:-)Wschart (talk) 12:20, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Where are all of the black people?
This page is way too white. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.220.76.63 (talk) 04:19, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I second the above comment. All pictures shown are of white groups when this genre was really primarily of African-American origin. This unwittingly symbolizes the same kind of injustice that was pervasive back then where white artists copied the black group songs or styles, even producing sanitized versions that made more $$. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.220.76.63 (talk) 04:19, 23 December 2010 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.36.166 (talk)

1931, Duke Ellington's band plays "It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing...Doo Wop Doo Wop Doo Wop Doo Wop Doo Wop Doo Wop Doo Wop Doo Wahhh." How that gets no mention is precisely why this question is not only valid but demands address. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.26.2.175 (talk) 15:32, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Doo-Wop and Rock and Roll
Doo-Wop was/is not rock and roll. They were distinctive styles of pop music that happened to be produced at the same time. If rock and roll had never existed, doo-wop would have been the same style. If anything, doo-wop predates rock and roll, coming out of the multi-part pop singing groups of the 1940s. What we have here is a confounding of anything that happened to be selling in the 1950s as somehow rock and roll. Rock and roll actually pretty well died until the Beatles brought it back, while doo-wop was still thriving in the early 1960s. It wouldn't have occurred to music fans of the time to confuse one with the other it's only the success of rock and roll and rock in the 1960s that bundles all rhythm and blues-based music as rock and roll. MarkinBoston (talk) 00:08, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the problem is this edit made by an IP user a few weeks ago. I'll revert it.  Doo-wop was highly influential on rock and roll, but the way the wording was written suggests that it was a rock'n'roll style, which, as you say, is misleading.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:22, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, Please; Give Over
"Rock and roll actually pretty well died until the Beatles brought it back,"(?) What is this bilge? Sounds like some foreign, ignorant little white guy, most likely Anglo, who would rant so! Rock and Roll (as founded exclusively by, and advanced by African-Americans,) was "rolling", innovating, and advancing just fine, With "Sue Records" (that produced "Ike and Tina Turner", "Stax Records", James Brown, Ray Charles, Joe Tex, Sam Cooke, Bo Diddley, Fats Domino, Etta james, The Platters, the Drifters\ Coasters, Jackie Wilson, Marv Johnson, Wyonnie Harris, Big MayBelle, and "Big Momma Thornton", Louis Jordan, Johnny Welch, Dakota Staton, Lloyd Price,"The Littles"...(Willie John, and Milton, Miles Davis, "Motown",etc.; not to mention other Jazz greats of the Forties and Fifties, who "crossed-over into "Pop" sphere, etc. which created revolutionsary new music that white boys couldn't touch, nor even mimic at the time before the Beatles (including melding Jazz, R&B, Gospel, Rock and Roll, and what was referred to as "Street-Corner Harmony", with southern blues (also "Black"). the Beatles themselves enfusively and repeatedly stated that all their early "hits" were aping African-American popular music at the time (includig 'covering' several "Isely Brothers" chart-busters, and others. The infamous "Payola", government harrassment of Black disc-jockeys, and Radio-station owners in the early 60s, forcibly removing many of them, and replacing them with virtually governement-approved, White, and white-washed, so-called "Good-Guys-of-Rock-n-Roll" (y'all know who I'm referring to,): the deaths of Ricky Valens, "The Big,Bopper", and Buddy Holly, depressing young people everywhere (though, the so-called "tragedy" had the stodgy, white-rascist older generation gloating with satanic glee); Chuck Berry, and Little Richard forcibly leaving the "scene" by the same above-named forces. Now, not taking anything from Paul, John, and George (like, my G-d, I, myself became a hopeless "Beatle-Maniac" when they first came out in 1962A.D. when I was five years old, freaking-out my parents to no end,) yet the "Fab-Four" (and the English Governement, and Crowned-sposored, promoted) "British Invasion" (talented as some were, undisputedly, and again, schooled on Black American music,) gave (young)White American males a "template" by which they could 'ape" Black music, though many, in the beginning became carbon copies of the "Liver Poole Lads", like "The Monkeys"! Only later in the 60s did White Americans (and a few "Spico-Ricans",[with "Boogaloo"]), get fully on the "Africano Calvacade" bandwagon, many of them virutally studying at the feet of R&B\Soul|Rock-n-Roll greats (as all out there know who these latter-day 'famous' interlopers were)!  No,the Beatles, and later, more radically, the disgusting, and ever degenerate Rolling Stones showed showed forlorned white boys with self-esteem issues (and other anti-social foibles,)that they needn't be extronairly talented, good-looking, but for sure, increasingly tone-deaf to perform their usurped, "Brand-X" form of so-called "Rock and Roll"

As the great Eddie Harris, and Les McCann quipqed lyrically, though in staccto protest: 'TRYIN' TO KEEP IT REAL, COMPARED TO WHAT...?"  --108.162.53.19 (talk) 18:10, 28 December 2016 (UTC)Veryverser

What this "article" also leaves out (as obvious as any "gaping hole", is that there actually were female "Doo-Wop" groups extant in the fifties and and early sixties. I needn't mention names, but please observe that the "genre" called "Jump-Rope" diddies were also a brand of mono-harmonious form of "Doo-Wop"!  I'll leave it to y'all out there to wrangle over this!  Just rememeber, that:

1-THE UNITED STATES HAD NOT, AND NEVER DEVELOPED AN AESTHETIC CULTURE, MUCH TO THE FORELORNED FEARS OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS, PARTICULARLY BENJAMIN FRANKLIN (The "Father", and Architect of the American Revolution, and our Republic...deal with your continued ignorance and hostility, on these matters, and give over!

2-THE ONLY "CULTURAL MATRIX" AMERICA CAN SOLEY CALL ITS OWN (NOT IMPORTED BY (WHITE)IMMIGRANTS IS MUSIC GENERATED BY AMERICAN AMERICANS...DEAL WITH THAT, AS WELL!

3-IF THE ENGLISH (ANGLO-SAXONS OF "LITTLE" BRITAIN) HADN'T ADOPTED AND TRAINED IT'S DOWN-TRODDENED LIMMIES (a.k.a "SUBJECTS", OR "COMMONORS": KNOWN HISTORICALLY CALLED DERISIVELY AS "THE GREAT UNWASHED"( which, in contrast is a 'double-whammy' of an insult, as the ancient Greeks, Romans, East Africans, bathed, and flossed daily,) HADN'T EMPLOYED THE CULTURAL STRATEGY OF ADOPTING, DESIMINATING AND FUNDING BLACK AMERICAN MUSIC INTO SOCIAL MILEU OF IT'S DOWN-TRODDEN MASSES, THEIR DEPRESSED CHATTLE WOULD HAVE TURNED HOSTILE, AND THEN REVOLUTIONARY, AS DID THE FRENCH YOUTH IN THE LATE 60s!

4-THE FINANCIAL SPONSORING AND PROMTIONAL INVESTMENT OF DECLASE ENGLISH YOUTH BECAME A ECONOMIC BONAZA FRO "THE CROWN", AS WELL AS A PANACEA OF OF THE HOSTILE ENGLISH MASSES AGAINST THE OLIGARCHY, PROVING WHAT "CULTURE", APPLIED FOR GOOD OR ILL CAN DO FOR A CIVILIZATION!!! --108.162.53.19 (talk) 18:55, 28 December 2016 (UTC)Veryverer

Found a Group...
But where does it go? I read through this article but can't think of a sensible place to put The Precisions. Probably not a "mainstream" group but a Doo-Wop one nonetheless. Feel free to link them in wherever you feel appropriate. I stumbled upon them while doing cleanup. Cheers! Kobuu (talk) 13:26, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * This article is not the place to list every doo-wop group. There is Category:Doo-wop groups for that.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:45, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Amy Winehouse
Winehouse was the leader of the revival of doo-wop in mainstream 21st century pop. A mention of Back to Black deserves to be made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.242.173 (talk) 01:26, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * "... the leader of the revival of doo-wop in mainstream 21st century pop".  Source?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:28, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Lillian Leach
I wonder if there's room in this article for a link to Lillian Leach and the Mellows. They were one of those mismanaged groups that never quite made it, but had loyal fans locally (including Lou Reed). Also I gather it was unusual in those days for a doo wop group to have a female lead singer. --Rosekelleher (talk) 01:49, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

p.s. Whoever wrote this article didn't shy away from mentioning the various ethnic backgrounds of doo wop groups. It might also be worth mentioning that the vast majority of the performers were male. I just ran across this on Google Books: "The only group on the survey with a female lead was Lillian Leach and the Mellows..." (from The Princeton Reader: Contemporary Essays by Writers and Journalists at Princeton University in an essay by Martin Gottlieb titled "Pop Music: The Durability of Doo Wop"). He was referring to some poll of the 50 greatest groups. --Rosekelleher (talk) 03:22, 20 March 2015 (UTC)