Talk:Dorgon

Protected
Because of edit-warring, I have protected the page for 3 days. This should give all editors ample time to have a discussion here over what the problem is, and to work out a consensus. Reverting one another's edits (and, particularly, reverting edits without giving any explanation for why, as Andres has done twice) is not an appropriate way to resolve disputes.

Per WP:BRD, I restored the article to its last version before the dispute began. This does not mean I favor either version over another; it's just standard procedure that, if a new change is contested, it be undone until a consensus is reached. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 03:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Rjanag. Appreciate the protection. I will advance my case and let Andres discuss his point of view. It seems to me the issue at hand is whether or not we consider Dorgon and Emperor, but more importantly whether we should present it as such in the article. The facts are quite straightforward - Dorgon was regent to the Shunzhi Emperor, and he was posthumously declared to be Emperor. These facts are discussed adequately in the article. Pushing for Wikipedia to define Dorgon as an Emperor is a whole other story. In no history books is he recorded as being an Emperor in the conventional sense - they describe his posthumous ascendancy to be relevant only in terms of rank - some consider it the work of Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang, with whom he was rumoured to have a relationship. Whatever the reason may have been, he is not considered an Emperor in all major works of Chinese historiography. This article puts it the most succinctly: Dorgon was "An Emperor who was not Emperor". The article should be treated accordingly - mention the fact that he was posthumously declared Emperor, but do not define him as one. Colipon+ (Talk) 23:10, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Shunzhi was the de facto emperor throughout 1644-1661 - the calendar usage then was based on "Shunzhi", not whatever era names of Dorgon.  No News  !  01:44, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested Move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus in support of move at present.   A rbitrarily 0   ( talk ) 18:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Dorgon → — According to Chinese practice he should be refered by his posthumous name--Andres rojas22 (talk) 15:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Have a discussion before filing a move request. It is already obvious (see above section) that people don't agree with your move; you need to gain consensus through discussion, you can't just keep looking for ways to circumvent it. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 17:39, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. He's usually referred to as Dorgon in English-language sources.  —   AjaxSmack   02:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * 東莪.jpg