Talk:Dorothy Rice Sims

Split from P. Hal Sims
I created this page by split 19:22 (original version) but revised the source page only three hours later, after more work on this page and some on related pages. Beyond a one-line assembly of bare-linkname sources by a previous editor, I had been the sole editor of the source section 5 "Dorothy Rice Sims", entirely during November 2014 (P. Hal Sims, end November version).

[belated insertion] --P64 (talk) 21:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Aviation training
We say D.R.S. "(trained at Wright School, Mineola, New York, in 1916)" relying on the Early Birds of Aviation blurb about member D.R.S. {ref name=EBA}. There my WP:COMMENT is !-- we place Wright Flying School 1910-1916 in three other locations --> because our article Wright Flying School mentions Alabama, Ohio, and Georgia sites only.

Mineola is on Long Island near NYCity. Our article Mineola, New York in one History paragraph covers "the Aviation Detachment, 1st Battalion Signal Corps of the New York National Guard" training at Mineola for one year from November 1915.

Google hits one promising Air & Space Magazine (Smithsonian) article, "The Most Talented Aviation Pioneer You've Never Heard of: Starling Burgess beat the Wright brothers at their own game", Paul Glenshaw, May 2014. From online page 3 of 5, the only page where 'Mineola' appears:
 * "The new Burgess-Wright Model F, nicknamed the Moth, was nearly identical to the Wright B. [...]
 * "On April 13, 1911, Burgess made the first flight of a Model F at his new flying school in Mineola, New York. [...]

Our article Burgess Company does not mention 'Mineola'. Our Wright Model B mentions a surviving Model B airplane that was used for "flight instruction at Mineola, New York, in 1916".

--P64 (talk) 21:36, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Grantland Rice
Probably the contemporary sportswriter Grantland Rice is no close relation. Our biography makes him born 1880 in Murfreesboro TN, son of cotton dealer Bolling H. Rice (d. 1917, Nashville, age 62).

Grantland Rice provided a "backword" in 1940 for DRS's memoir Curiouser and Curious. Neither WorldCat nor LC Catalog supports that but google hits multiple bookdealers evidently concerning the (sole?) 1940 edition. Here is one.

--P64 (talk) 21:44, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Marriages
We need to mention her marriages. We currently refer to P. Hal Sims without saying anywhere that he was her husband. Looking at Hal Sims' own article, it seems that he was her second husband, her first marriage having ended in divorce. JH (talk page) 09:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Her first husband was the American impressionist painter Waldo Peirce, whose External links include two Bain News Service photos of "Mrs. Waldo Peirce"--first of four, our Dorothy. See also Talk:Waldo Peirce, section 4 "Waldo Pierce [sic]".
 * I have assembled some more info, and some more news coverage that I haven't yet read. One thing not found, news of her marriage to Sims.
 * See the next section momentarily. --P64 (talk) 20:23, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Related articles
I have revised these pages in relation to work on Dorothy Rice Sims during November and February. Some will need revisit. +T - Talk page too
 * P. Hal Sims+T — source page, where the original for this page was created as section 5 during November 2014
 * Isaac Rice+T, Marion Rice Hart+T, Waldo Peirce+T, Valentine Williams
 * William Starling Burgess, Burgess Company+T

These pages should get some update or expansion (not to mention pages where her name should link here).
 * Albert Morehead; perhaps other newspaper bridge writers
 * Ely Culbertson (section may need split); Josephine Culbertson
 * Psychic bid+T, Rubber bridge

--P64 (talk) 21:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Another related article appears at this link on the BridgeGuys website. The article expands on material in a book by Albert Ostrow and addresses the origin of her generally being referred to as the "inventor" or "originator" of the psychic bid. Newwhist (talk) 18:42, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * (revised above to indicate Talk:psychic bid) --P64 (talk) 20:21, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

A missing "not"?
Should there be a "not" before "to stifle" in this quotation? "The careers of the six Rice children attracted considerable attention in New York, because their parents encouraged them to stifle their inhibitions." JH (talk page) 19:29, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I stumbled over that once reading the newspaper and once reading the preview. No, it's "stifle their inhibitions"--be uninhibited. --P64 (talk) 19:38, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah yes. Silly me! It's a very strange way of putting it, though. JH (talk page) 21:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Photo copyright
The description at the external link for photo 1 indicates "No known restrictions on publication". Is this sufficient justification for inclusion in the article without violating copyright? Date of photo is stated as ca1915 to ca1920 so rights may have expired. Interesting that her "Peirce" surname inscribed on the photo is misspelled. Newwhist (talk) 14:14, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * She is mis-spelled in several contemporary NYC newspaper articles, Talk:Waldo Peirce, section Waldo Pierce [sic] (whose heading with square brackets breaks simple wikilinkage).
 * The two External links to Library of Congress Prints & Photographs Online Catalog records are copied with rewording from Waldo Peirce. We don't use the photos now, only link to their catalog pages. Concerning their publication, such as prospective display here, PPOC says "Rights Advisory: No known restrictions on publication. ... Rights assessment is your responsibility. " So we know the Library doesn't exercise any exclusive right derived from digitization. I don't know that the photo date is relevant.
 * (ACBL says Sims and Sims "met and married" in 1917 but means "met" only, I suppose. Mrs. Peirce filed for divorce 1917-10-15 in Bangor ME, granted 1918-04-27.)
 * -P64 19:38 --P64 (talk) 20:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, unconventional she may have been, but I don't suppose that she was a bigamist! JH (talk page) 21:18, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

newspapers.com clips
Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk)
 * search:Isaac Rice Muriel Dorothy Marion Marjorie Julian -wiki
 * https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3402452/girl_on_motorcycle/
 * https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3402436/new_york_girl_who_is_the_bride/
 * https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3402429/dorothy_rice_wed_in_madrid/
 * https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3402264/perfect_woman_asks_divorce_from_perfect/

newspapers.com : more clips

 * Girl on Motorcycle
 * Dorothy Rice Wed in Madrid
 * New York Girl Who is The Bride
 * Aviator and Woman
 * Aeroplane Falls into Bay
 * Mile High Club Founders
 * Great South Bay, LI - Half Mile from Shore
 * Aviators have Narrow Escape
 * Aviator Falls into Bay (AP)
 * Mrs. Waldo Pierce(sic), fractured pelvis
 * From Her Sick Bed
 * Woman Aviatrix
 * Perfect Woman Asks Divorce From Perfect Man, Proving Perfect Marriage a Failure

_-_-Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 21:05, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Did she start the Mile-High Club?
This is from the Professional Pilots World forum:

"It was during November of 1916, when Sperry began giving flying lessons to a New York socialite by the name of Mrs. Waldo Polk. The couple were aloft in a Curtiss flying boat over Babylon, New York one day, evidently engaging in carnal pleasure through the benefit of Sperry's recently devised autopilot. Suddenly something went wrong, and the plane plunged 500 feet into great South Bay." "Two duck hunters paddled to the wreck and rescued, much to their amazement, the naked couple. Apparently Sperry stated the crash "divested" them of their clothing. The couple was brought to Southside Hospital, with Sperry walking, and Polk alongside in a stretcher."

"Local papers glossed over the fact that the duo lacked any clothes, but the New York tabloid Mirror & Evening Graphic, headlined their front page with: AERIAL PETTING - ENDS IN WETTING

"Both instructor and student survived their ordeal and Sperry later told a friend that he bumped the gyro platform during their aerial maneuvering. Sperry would crash his Sperry Messenger biplane in the English Channel seven years later, ending his life."

They obviously got the last name wrong--Polk instead of Peirce--but it's a fascinating story if true. "Sperry" is Elmer Sperry, the inventor of the autopilot and numerous other aviation devices and instruments.173.62.11.254 (talk) 21:44, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

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