Talk:Draft horse

March 2008
Has anyone red Margaret Derry's "Horses in Society" (2006). She argues that draft horses are a product of the industrial era, were developed for urban and industrial markets and that farmers preferred a more general prupose horse. Has any one read this book or any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.73.26 (talk) 16:30, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Draft vs. Draught
I find this title very confusing as in OZ we use 'draft' as an abbreviated form to describe a campdrafter to draft stock and draft also has many other meanings. Why not the correct form of Draught??? Cgoodwin (talk) 03:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "Draft" is proper American English where "Draught" is very rare. I don't about pronunciation but in the U.S. it is generally the same for both spellings.  I haven't looked at this article in a while and don't have time right now, but likely it has established itself as an American English article.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 04:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * LOL! It is because the "correct" way to spell it in the USA (where we, of course, are ALWAYS right -- LOL!  (grinning, ducking and running...)) is "draft." And yes, Doug draft and draught I have been told are both understood to use the "ft" pronunciation.   When we Yanks see "draught," we usually think, "Hmm.  "drat" horse?  "drot" horse?  What's that??"  The exception are the Irish Draught fans, who are (pretentiously) insistent on "Draught" spelling  (All of the preceeding is said tongue in cheek and is intended to be funny, should anyone misunderstand) But seriously, folks, I've been on wiki about two years, and I think there have been numerous "draught/draft" moves, revert wars, moving wars, etc.  Per wiki guidelines, I think the rule is that whichever form of US/UK English an article is started or substantially expanded in, that is the format in which it should be kept.  I think if you check "what links here" for the article, there will be many links to both spellings.  That said, the history of this article may be so scrambled that there may be no clear consensus.  As for campdrafting, that is, I think, a uniquely Australian use (?), and maybe the thing to do is to add a nice disambig to campdrafting, as I see no way to resolve the thing in either direction without someone being confused. I think I'm confused -- Um, What day is it, what planet am I on, and what happened to that bag of cookies I was eating? (burp!) :-D     Montanabw (talk) 18:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I have to *laugh* at those that don't know how to pronounce or spell *draught*. The word "draft" is something that is done on paper... a rough draft, a beginning....It is a homonymn, like two, too, and two. Wedster and his friends would have us spell all these three words the same, even though they are different words. Maybe the USA spellers ought to recommend that the Webster dictionary should be actaully as logical as it claims to be, and all GH words like draught, laugh, tough, enough, and many more, be all spelt with one or two Fs. LOL

69.166.30.109 (talk) 10:42, 15 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I suspect you mean homophone, rather than homonym, as then it would be spelt the same too. OwainDavies (about)(talk) edited at 10:55, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Heavy Horse
I've heared about the term Heavy Horse from the album of the band Jethro Tull called also Heavy Horses. and my questions is: is this is also a popular name for this kind of horses? --Oren neu dag (talk) 07:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's sort of archaic and if used at all, more common in the UK. Ask Richard New Forest, he's our resident Brit expert on draft horse stuff.  Richard?  You around? By the way, that IS a cool album and the title track makes me cry every time they sing about how the tractors are coming...as thousands of farm horses went to slaughter in those times.  Several draft breeds came close to extinction, both in the UK and the USA...   Montanabw (talk) 05:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Query
When did harness horse redirect to this article? They aren't exactly the same thing... Ealdgyth - Talk 13:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I would agree that they're not exactly the same thing, but it looks like the Harness horse page never actually existed as anything other than what it is now. It was created as a redirect in July of 2005, and no-one has done anything with it since. Dana boomer (talk) 13:43, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I"ll redirect to Driving (horse).  Montanabw (talk) 23:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Breeds
It would be nice if this (and other type articles) had a list of relevant breeds rather than just pointing to the full list of horse breeds, as it's a long list and it doesn't tell you which ones are draft/coldbloods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.96.150 (talk) 16:10, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The problem is that there is not a consensus of where the line actually is. Unlike, say, the American Kennel Club, which breaks dog breeds into various groups, there is no "official" listing of what horse breeds are coldbloods, warmbloods and hotbloods.  While many breeds clearly fall into various categories, there are a lot of breeds on the margins that could fit across more than one.  Heck there's even disputes over when a breed is a horse or pony breed.  Any listing would be arbitrary and tough to source.   Montanabw (talk) 22:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Adding a Kladruber to the list of draft breeds: (I apologize that I do not reply to montanabw's reversion of my edit - i could not find how to, new to wikipedia.) You removed Kladruber from the list saying it's a warmblood. I believe this breed should be mentioned in this section as it was bred to be mainly a harness, coach-pulling horse, larger and heavier than regular warmbloods (the word 'galakarossier' is mentioned on the official stud website). Especially considering that even Friesians, Freibergers and Haflingers are listed there, I thought Kladruber was omitted because they are unknown. However, seeing that there is now added a subsection "Harness horse", I believe that is exactly the place where Kladruber mention fits.Cocopelli (talk) 13:04, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

The Kladruber is not a draft horse. Draft horses were, basically, farm horses. Though some "light draft" breeds like the Friesian and the Haflinger have now been bred up to be saddle horses, they did come from roots as farm horses. While of the breeds in the list are marginal to be classed as draft animals, they are listed as bloodstock by various draft registries. We have a separate article on the heavy warmblood breeds that were used for harness, and that's what that section is all about -- i.e. a "these are NOT draft horses so don't put them in this article" explanation. These heavy harness horses are different from draft breeds. You need a WP:CITE to show that the Kladruber was a mere farmhorse, and breed aficionados would, most likely, be insulted to have them so classified. Montanabw (talk) 02:16, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Dutch harness horse
The Dutch harness horse is actually a type of warmblood horse... as it is even mentioned in the article itself. But I'm wondering about the Fri(e)sian horse: is it a warmblood or draft horse breed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dqfn13 (talk • contribs) 09:41, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * As you can see from the section above this one, it is often hard to classify which breeds are technically draft horses and which aren't. In reality, this whole article needs to be rewritten with better sourcing, as reliable sources are really the only defining factor. Neither the Dutch harness horse or the Friesian are mainstream draft horses, although they likely both have members that have been used for draft purposes at one time or another (although this can really be said about any breed). I hope this helps. Dana boomer (talk) 12:40, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dana, I only mentioned it because I want to help improve Wikipedia and I can translate from Dutch to English and vice versa. Lets sign this time: Dqfn13 (talk) 15:19, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I've debated whether we should toss the list altogether. There are so many multipurpose breeds out there.  The Germans use the term "Coldblood" to classify a number of breeds, but that even includes some rather lively horses like the Black Forest Horse.   We have a similar problem at Warmblood too, though.  I fear it would be OR to have these lists in some cases, because while the Shire is an obvious example, something like my little buddies the Haflingers (by the way, I WANT A HAFLINGER!) clearly fall into multiple categories.  And then there are also my little buddies the Finnhorse where there are multiple sections from draft to riding type and a pony section!  =:-O — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montanabw (talk • contribs)
 * What list? As far as I can see, there's just one sentence on draft breeds, then a short paragraph on harness breeds and the difference between the two. I think the question comes from the picture of the Dutch harness horse, which is used to illustrate that section. (I want a Haflinger TOO, although Pasos are easier on my back...) Dana boomer (talk) 23:03, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, you're right. The list is gone! In fact, I think I was the one who dumped it! My bad!  Hey, if you get a line on a good Paso, I hear you, they're lovely too.  Just prone to stifle problems... Hmmm... I wonder what you'd get crossing a Paso with a Haflinger...  Probably a =:-O    Montanabw (talk) 00:15, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

"Forest horse"
On the assumption that no-one really believes in the Four Foundations theory any more, I've removed a short and unreferenced paragraph about this mythical beast from the article. Here's what it said:""Draft horses may have originated with primitive ancestors such as the Forest Horse and the "draft subtype", wild subspecies that may have descendants as diverse as the large Shire horse and the small but sturdy Shetland pony. These wild prototypes were adapted by natural selection to the cold, damp climates of northern Europe."" Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:59, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The theory that it was a wild subspecies prior to domestication is now pretty much disproven. However, we probably need to replace this with a (sourced) discussion of wild domestication and landrace adaptation that clearly brought about a phenotype quite different from, say, the Arabian or Barb. (Actually, for that matter, some of the British pony breeds argue wild original domestication too)  I don't mind cutting that bit for now, but we probably do want to replace it with better material lest it return, thanks to the continued existence of the theory in some books and web sites that haven't come up to speed on the remarkable changes related to the DNA studies of the past decade.   Montanabw (talk) 22:04, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Sources for improvement
Parking some research links here for anyone wanting to upgrade this article. Montanabw (talk) 19:30, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * https://www.thehorse.com/articles/10972/heavy-horse-health-problems
 * http://www.countrysidemag.com/91-6/kay_wolfe/


 * Ooh, cool. This is another one on my to-do list for the year. My husband just ordered a couple of new books on draft horses (one on their anatomy/nutrition/etc as it is the same as/differs from riding horses and one on their use in modern sustainable farming) that should be here by the end of the month. So yeah, hopefully something to do this year. Along with everything else we want to get done :) Dana boomer (talk) 20:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The Horse also has some very good articles on feeding and health issues in draft horses, and a good article on the differences in reproduction (foaling is a big concern, in part due to the size of the foals and the weight of the placenta). Real interesting.  I'm kind of hanging out on the horse racing stuff at the moment, but I'd be glad to pop over here as needed.  I also have a Percheron (the black horse standing by the quarter horse in the article already) and a Clydesdale just down the road from me should we need some sort of specific horse shot not already in wiki.   Montanabw (talk) 20:51, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Need help identifying a draft horse
Hello all, I took the following picture which I think would do well on a wikipedia article, but I didn't get a chance to ask about the breed before they disappeared into the forest. I didn't recognize that horse breed on any of commons:Category:Draft horses but it seems to look very different when it's working, which is something I like about the picture. --Trougnouf (talk) 23:28, 23 February 2018 (UTC)