Talk:Drag panic/Archive 1

Better image(s)
The image of RuPaul for this page is fitting, but I think it could be better. I'm having trouble finding a good image that fits Wikipedia's guidelines. If anybody could find a better image or has any tips for image licence in the future, that would be appreciated. ChocolateAvian (talk) 03:04, 12 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Did you see the image used at 2022 drag performance protests? CT55555 (talk) 02:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've removed the image of RuPaul. This is not an article about RuPaul. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:26, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Merge?
This and 2022 drag performance protests will likely cover much of the same ground, do we think they ought to be merged? Pinging page creators &. -- Pokelova (talk) 08:37, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Also pinging since she has a lot of experience with the creation and maintenance of articles on anti-queer subjects. --Pokelova (talk) 08:45, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree that they are the same topic and that merging them makes sense. CT55555 (talk) 12:56, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping! I agree they should be merged. I'm more partial to merging the 2022 drag performance protests into this article than vice versa, since the panic began before 2022 (though certainly picked up speed then). After the merge (if there are no objections to it), when I have some time, I'll try and update the article since a lot more details could be added (particularly orgs that have been vocally protesting such things like Gays Against Groomers, the Proud Boys, and Guardians of Divinity). TheTranarchist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 17:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I also propose to merge 2022 drag performance protests as this entry since the one contains only 1 specific year while this one is more all encompassing.--BlackJack92 (talk) 17:32, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I do agree that the 2022 article is unnecessarily time limited and that should be addressed. However, this article presents the issues as uniquely American and that is ignoring the events in Canada and UK. I think the other article covers the topic more comprehensively. I also don't think "drag panic" is the all encompassing term of the phenomenon, I don't think that is how people searching for the issue will search for it. Only two sources in this article say "drag panic" in their title. Basically, both articles are flawed in their framing. CT55555 (talk) 02:44, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * When there is no common name, we are entitled to come up with one that is descriptive. While the specific phrase "drag panic" doesn't appear in too many sources, many sources do describe a moral panic about drag queens. --Pokelova (talk) 06:57, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would proceed to merge the pages if no one objects or if a formal vote is not needed.
 * As for the name of the page, it can also be changed but I think, in its current state, this is representative of the phenomenon.--BlackJack92 (talk) 09:05, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Everyone seems to unanimously agree that they should be merged, so that can definitely be done without a formal vote. Drag panic currently has the most support, so that is the logical target for now while we continue to discuss possible alternative titles for the article. JDDJS  ( talk to me  •  see what I've done ) 02:37, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It's only been a few days, please let's give it the normal amount of time to get wider consensus before taking action. There is no rush. CT55555 (talk) 02:48, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support merge, obviously duplicative topics. Reywas92Talk 02:50, 20 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Can someone move forward with a merge so editors can focus on a single entry, please? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Done--BlackJack92 (talk) 13:55, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 May 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc . talk  08:00, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Drag Panic → Criticism of drag – As per WP:COMMONNAME and the relevancy of the title. Google shows 34 600 000 results for "criticism of drag" as opposed to 17 600 000 for "drag panic", and the article is mainly about various groups that have criticized drag in the past, which several sources have called drag panic, so "Criticism of drag" is a more suitable name. Félix An (talk) 12:19, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as per reasons above. Félix An (talk) 04:38, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem is that "criticism of drag" might not just be about this. In fact this is the first hit (for me) [], which is about feminism, not child protection, in fact most of the first few hits seem to be about that. Slatersteven (talk) 12:22, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Recently 2022 drag performance protests was merged into this article. I think a descriptive title along those lines is preferable to the uncommon expression "Drag Panic". I would support a move to 2022–2023 drag performance protests, as the controversy is still ongoing. Cheers, gnu 57 12:38, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose "Criticism of drag", as that is overly broad for the subject at hand. I've already said my piece about "Drag panic" in an above section, I think it's mostly fine. As for the above suggestion of "2022–2023 drag performance protests", if we were to go in that direction I would say drop the word performance from it. --Pokelova (talk) 13:05, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Also this article says it started in 2019. Slatersteven (talk) 13:09, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose The page speaks of a moral panic (it illustrates all the typical elements that are part of it) while the "criticism of drag" gives the idea of something generic as if it were an aggregator of generic critical points on the issue.--BlackJack92 (talk) 13:13, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Not many people are calling it the "criticism of drag" and the article's name should be Drag panic and not Drag Panic. — JuanGLP (talk + contribs) 14:39, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Strong oppose. We will rename this article "Criticism of drag" the same day we rename the article Antisemitism to "Criticism of Jews", i.e. never. Why not? Let's break it down. This is not about "criticism". To call it "criticism" is to accept the cynical and dishonest framing of the abusers at face value. Surely we are smarter than that? This article is about the specific moral panic. Actual criticism of drag probably does exist but that would be a completely different topic and can be covered elsewhere to whatever extent is warranted. Other names suggested also seem deficient because "protests" does not cover the extent of the topic. There is a lot more to this than protests. There is the legislation and pseudo-legislation, the threats and the terrorism. I think the current title is reasonable but maybe some improvement is possible. Quite possibly JuanGLP is correct about the capitalisation? I don't want to cut the discussion off but what we can't even consider is any suggested euphemistic title that disguises what the subject of this article actually is. --DanielRigal (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Drag Panic → Drag panic

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc . talk  06:50, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Drag Panic → Drag panic

I created this page calling it "Drag panic" but it was moved to "Drag Panic". I don't see the reason for the capital letter (as if we were talking about a name) and consequently I request that it be reverted to the previous name. BlackJack92 (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. as per reasons above.--BlackJack92 (talk) 15:31, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. — JuanGLP (talk/contribs) 14:17, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. No caps needed. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:49, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support the technicality per WP:TITLEFORMAT, although not 100% sure it is the correct WP:COMMONNAME. -- wooden  superman  15:17, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Support. Obviously. WP:TITLEFORMAT. ChocolateAvian (talk) 00:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support. It's a minor thing but worth doing. --DanielRigal (talk) 02:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

"Drag Isn't Dangerous" telethon
--- Another Believer ( Talk ) 14:20, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * https://ew.com/tv/rupauls-drag-race-winners-unite-drag-isnt-dangerous-telethon/
 * https://www.out.com/drag/drag-isnt-dangerous-telethon
 * Another editor has created Drag Isn't Dangerous --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 02:02, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Inserted.--BlackJack92 (talk) 16:44, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-03
— Assignment last updated by Momlife5 (talk) 15:51, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-01
— Assignment last updated by Bbalicia (talk) 00:45, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Transparency
Does this article actually fail to mention that sexualized drag shows where kids are present do exist? There are several videos that explicitly show this. Or even where the kids themselves are dressed as drag queens in inappropriate fashions. 142.186.88.120 (talk) 02:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Gurl... --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:49, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It does indeed exist, here is one example: https://www.libsoftiktok.com/p/watch-drag-queen-appears-to-perform?sd=pf
 * While Wikipedia may not allow any sources that discuss these events, can we at least acknowledge they do exist and we should be at least trying to find reliable source(s)? 142.186.88.120 (talk) 19:26, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Come back when you're ready to share those reliable sources. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 19:06, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * libs of tiktok is not a reliable source. Obelus1 (talk) 15:31, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The source in this instance is the video footage itself, not the website hosting it. Smarten up. 82.38.214.252 (talk) 07:58, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Read wp:rs, and wp:sps. Slatersteven (talk) 08:28, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Here's a WP:RS, the CBC, that mentioned that sexualized drag shows with kids present exist: https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/is-it-ok-for-your-kids-to-watch-or-take-part-in-drag-performances

"Yule says some adult drag shows and communities might have more “flirty” or sexual performances, but parents can ensure their children are attending age-appropriate events. If there are song lyrics or dance moves that a parent is uncomfortable with, it’s important to have a conversation."

And CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/texas-senate-votes-limit-childrens-access-to-drag-shows/

Félix An (talk) 11:31, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * These sources do not show that there is a widespread issue of age-inappropriate drag performances targeted at children.
 * The first source says, 'The [drag] events that are geared toward children and teens tend to be very positive — not hyper-sexualized — and very appropriate...'
 * Also: 'Monitoring children’s activities is not specific to drag, she adds. It would be the same with music, movies, television shows and online content — she says parents should screen for appropriate material with anything their children enjoy.'
 * So this isn't something specific to drag.
 * The second source does report on a lawmaker's *opinion* of drag, but doesn't verify that opinion as a fact. It reports on a law that was passed, including some of the wording of that law, but not how many (if any) incidents led to the law being passed or whether they were indeed sexualising children.
 * As it stands, this page already points out that several American politicians and commentators have claimed there is an issue, and this article merely corroborates that the existing wording is enough. It doesn't suggest that additional/new wording is needed. Lewisguile (talk) 11:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)