Talk:Dragon kill points

Noteworthy
This is something that is definitely noteworthy enough for an article, and I'm glad to see a good article being put forward. Hopefully people can allow it to live. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.50.170 (talk) 08:29, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps someone could restore this article to its former glory, as found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saraid/DKP. --Psychochild (talk) 13:07, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Be bold. Some of that stuff would need to be trimmed per WP:UNDUE and NOT, but it certainly could be added on.  I said as much in the FAQ above. Protonk (talk) 05:02, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Source questions
I'm not sure that the reference for Krista-Lee Malone states who this person is nor why she is significant. I would also suggest that the citation used for her does not make any reference to this person nor does it say what it cited. Additionally, I would question whether a user submitted essay on this Daedalus Project site meets the standard of a reliable source? Ngaskill (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC).
 * That's two questions, and I'll try to answer them both.
 * First the Daedalus Project. Nick Yee, who oversaw the project and collected the information, is a subject matter expert.  We are allowed to use self published material from him on the subject of his expertise.
 * Malone is a harder nut to crack. The work hasn't been published yet but has been accepted for publication.  I'm not really attempting to use her intrinsic  'authority' per se.  I'm just attempting to use the best sources available.  When a release date for the paper becomes available, I will update the source with it.  I'd prefer to not use it, but there isn't much else in the world of reliable sources on the subject. Protonk (talk) 06:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Upon further review, is the the Daedalus Project material referenced even relevant to this entry? The page seems to be various gamers narrative responses about "power" in online gaming world. While I can see the narratives might suggest that possessing virtual items is be a source of power, how does this relate to DKP? Would an virtual object obtained through a DKP system be more prestigious than obtained from a different loot distribution system? Perhaps the implication is that merely having amassed points in a DKP system in and of itself is a source of power within a gaming community.

Finally I suggest that after revisiting this article a month later without further details on the unpublished Malone citations that this material be removed for until such time as it is available for review. Ngaskill (talk) 06:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The daedalus project cites relate to specific sections in the article, where they are footnoted. No attempt is made to argue that the pages cited relate uniquely to DKP.  However in order to contextualize the subject, some background is needed.  Yee provides that background.
 * I'm willing to talk about the Malone cite, but I don't agree that it should be removed. If the piece had never been accepted for publication I would agree that it would fail RS.  As it stands, I think it is marginal.  If you like, you can ask for some feedback on the reliable sources noticeboard. Protonk (talk) 06:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

How is the statement "As such, a "Cold Snap" represents a signal to other players that the bearer has defeated a particular high-level monster and therefore mastered the skills needed to do so." verified by anything on http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001300.php?page=6 as cited? Ngaskill (talk) 07:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Also I am willing to accept that the Malone cited material as reliable. I still question the relevance? Maybe this whole discussion might be better served by merging it into an article about MMOs rather than specifically DKP? Ngaskill (talk) 07:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Now I'm confused. If we are in agreement as to the reliability of Malone's paper, how can you not see the relevance of the paper to this article?
 * Well, a portion of the cold snap sentence is cited to malone. Basically the idea goes something like this: Rare, bind on pickup items are signals to other players that you have defeated monster XYZ and are therefore skilled enough (or whatever) to do so.  Malone and Yee both note this theme among players (power brings recognition in Yee, the page is cited in Malone).  It isn't the only reason people value the items specifically, but it is one reason that players have divulged to researchers.  The sentence is there because we have to make sense of why these items are "valuable" to players and why loot systems were generated to hand them out fairly. Protonk (talk) 07:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Are these sources explicitly drawing the same conclusion? Using the context of each seems to go against the ideas of WP:SYN. However, that issue not withstanding I still question most of that entire section's relevance in an article about Dragon Kill Points? People probably don't think "wow that guy's cold snap was obtained with 557 DKP!" they think "wow, that guy has a cold snap item!" Ngaskill (talk) 07:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Almost all the sources are web available and you may read them yourself, if you so desire. Protonk (talk) 16:46, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

DKP and casual players
I'm disappointed that there is no mention of the controvesies that have occured with the use of this system, and how it is sometimes considered divisive, particularly by casual players. Unfortunately any mention of that may lead to edit wars by those with a vested interest. But I don't feel this article can meet the criteria for npov without a balanced look at the negatives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.191.25.5 (talk) 08:06, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Meaningful controversy is always of encyclopedic interest. The first step there, though, is identifying the reliable sources that we can draw upon for discussion of said controversy.  (Forum posts aren't going to cut it.) &mdash;chaos5023 (talk) 08:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a good comment, but Chaos is basically right. Malone (and to some extent Castronova) talks about DKP and casual players, but there are not a lot of articles which flesh out the issue.  Part of the  problem is that as the player base in WoW has grown more casual, DKP has become less important--largely as a result of raid size shrinking. Protonk (talk) 15:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I have Castronova's Synthetic Worlds at home, but haven't read much of it. Do you think a skim targeted at this issue is likely to be productive? &mdash;chaos5023 (talk) 19:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * i'm not sure. He gave a conference talk about DKP a while back, but I'm not sure how generally he treats DKP as a subject in virtual worlds.  My suggestion would be to look through his posts on Terra Nova first. Protonk (talk) 19:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, good idea. Thanks. :) &mdash;chaos5023 (talk) 20:06, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

How is DKP actually tracked? Do the guild leaders just write it down somewhere? Seems extremely easy to abuse without in-game controls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.71.19.121 (talk) 05:21, 14 September 2017 (UTC)