Talk:Dragonmead

Contested deletion
This page is not unambiguously promotional, because it isn't. It describes the history of this particular Craft brewery in a manner that is entirely consistent with other similar articles. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 13:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I have already removed the CSD template, along with what I perceive to be the elements that inspired its addition. There is a reasonable amount of coverage available on this subject,, which suggests that it meets the notability requirements. However, future expansion should be performed in a neutral manner. Yunshui 雲 水 13:11, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Please restore the prior talk page which was deleted. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 13:34, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've restored the talkpage history, and the WikiProject banners above. Yunshui 雲 水 13:39, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * They've won lots of awards in beer competitions, including gold medals at the World Beer Cup. At least three of their beers are being bottled and distributed regionally and are exceptional: Under the Kilt (Wee Heavy); Final Abolution; and Crown Jewels.  This article has been here for 9 years, and you thought there was urgency in getting rid of it?  9 years; 16 hours?  Hmmm.  The brewery is also noteworthy for having developed proprietary processes that enable it to put out 75 beers (from time to time) out of a very small brewery, and this has been written about in printed media.  Many of the assistant brewers have gone on to work in other Michigan microbreweries; Dragonmead has been in the forefront and helped seed a lot of craft brewing here.  (I don't have a WP:RS for that, and personal knowledge doesn't qualify, I know.  But it's still true. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 13:55, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm more than a little concerned by the addition of the company's logo; according to the file page it's available under a Free Art licence, but it would be a very unusual step for a company to un-trademark their own logo, and I can find no evidence that they have ever done so. I suggest we remove the image from the page until it's copyright status is established, or move it back to Wikipedia from Commons and add a fair use rationale. For the time being I'm going to take it out as a probable copyright violation. Yunshui <sup style="font-size:90%">雲 <sub style="font-size:90%">水 14:38, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Is there a way for them to grant a limited license? <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:42, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No - they either release it for free reuse under one of the appropriate licences, or they retain their rights (in which case we can still prepare a fair use case). There's no process for releasing something "only for use on Wikipedia" or "only for non-commercial use" that would enable it to be used on Commons. Yunshui <sup style="font-size:90%">雲 <sub style="font-size:90%">水 14:51, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

So it has to be fair use or not at all. Can't imagine they would give up their trademark. Thanks. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:57, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't have thought so. I'd suggest the following course of action:
 * nominate the existing file (at Commons) for deletion as a copyvio
 * upload a new version (to Wikipedia, not Commons) with an appropriate fair use rational
 * use the new version in the article
 * Not sure if I'll have time this afternoon (I'm on a bit of a dip-in, dip-out spree, so have little time to do anything that's more than a few clicks); if you want to take care of it, feel free. Yunshui <sup style="font-size:90%">雲 <sub style="font-size:90%">水 15:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've never done that before. And right now real life beckons. So if you could do that, it would be appreciated. p.s., I'm having trouble with a link in one of the references.  Please take a spy-by.  Cheers!  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>)
 * You were missing a colon (the punctuation mark; I'm optimistically assuming that your digestive system is still intact). I'll see if I can sort the image out on Monday, I doubt I'll have time before that. Yunshui <sup style="font-size:90%">雲 <sub style="font-size:90%">水 15:29, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently I did... Yunshui <sup style="font-size:90%">雲 <sub style="font-size:90%">水 15:49, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Coordinates
Latitude: 42.490908 | Longitude: -83.060446 Altitude 189 meters. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 16:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

"Facilities"
The article has a section titled "Facilities", about some unspecified bar. Unless some relevance to the subject of the article can be provided, I believe it should be deleted. Maproom (talk) 19:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Non-encyclopedic content
This series of edits effectively reverts my previous edit, where I removed content for it not being encyclopedic. No explanation has been given for this. I'm seeking consensus for whether this material, which I would contend is not pertinent to the notability of this brewery, should or should not be included. --Dweller (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe that the material you removed should have no place in an encyclopedia. It might be appropriate in promotional material. Maproom (talk) 15:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry. No discourtesy was intended.  I was actually focused on being repeatedly reverted at Little Ice Age.  Sigh.  That they have a kitchen is surely encyclopedic.  I put this into a note {lots of WP:RS) so that there would not be WP:Undue.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 16:14, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Many breweries have kitchens, which are not, and should not be, mentioned in their Wikipedia articles. Maproom (talk) 16:46, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * We can agree to disagree. We don't have a lot of editors giving us input on this.  <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 16:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The argument that it is not-encyclopedic is a poor one, because removing it removes the fact it has food service. The material is entirely appropriate for inclusion. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:27, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Article history
Articles for Deletion/Dragonmead which resulted in a Keep and Did you know nominations/Dragonmead which failed over a question of 5X expansion. There was a suggestion by someone at the time that it could be remedied by nominating it for a GA. I didn't follow up on that. GAs are a lot of work, and I did not want to make the effort. I don't think it was ever nominated for GA. Until today, I was unaware of a putative GA review. If I had been, I would have tried to address the listed issue. I don't know what that's about. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 12:26, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for digging those up. I added the AfD; as far as I can see failed DYK nominations don't go in article history so I left that out. Mike Christie (talk - contribs -  library) 13:14, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't care; it doesn't matter anyway. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 14:48, 9 February 2023 (UTC)