Talk:Drain-waste-vent system

Rewriting
The original article seemed a little difficult to read. I tore it apart and rewrote it to be a little shorter and clearer.

It also seemed to be a sales pitch for air admittance valves, which I'd never heard of before. I suspect most people are more familiar with the stack-on-the-roof sewer vent, so I wrote the article more around those, and left the AAV link if people want more information.

Finally, a picture of a residential building with a sewer vent would be very useful, as would a diagram of a vent, two traps, and sewer line. --Mdwyer 19:48, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed. If I had artistic skill, I'd do the drawing. There's a Home Depot book with some wonderful graphics, I'll see if they'd be willing to let it be used (for credit: "Wikipedia's use of this image has been graciously donated by Home Depot" or similar). (Bob Nardelli owes me a favor, so what the hell.) --Yiddophile 03:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone has rewritten my rewrite. I think it is good enough to remove the banner from the top, so I am going to do just that. I'm also going to integrate the HepvO product into the article a little more so it doesn't look so tacked-on.--Mdwyer 19:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Merging and Cleanup
I have removed the suggestion of a merge to Domestic water system, because this topic is more generally applicable than to just that system. I have merged in the content of Air-admittance valve. I have also begun the process of wikifying this article. -- kaosfere 18:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Air admittance valve?
The "Venting to atmosphere" section is great! Of course, diagrams and picutres would make it even better... But the "Air admittance valve" section does not make sense -- if it only allows gases in, not out, how does it prevent back-pressure when a toilet flushes?69.87.193.156 13:05, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It doesn't. This, and its requirement for maintenance, are a couple of the reasons they're not liked by some (ahem... a lot of) building codes. In general, though, positive pressure isn't as big a deal as negative pressure - positive pressure means small amounts of sewer gas entry (bubbles in the toilet bowl) or just that the water in the P-traps rises momentarily. Negative pressure siphons out P-traps, resulting in a wide open source of yummy sewer gases. So yeah, you flush the toilet and the pipe goes through positive pressure as you displace your goodies (AAV not doing anything to help you) and negative pressure as that column of water falls down the pipe (AAV opens and prevents siphoning of P-traps). Since they do 50% of the job *and* require maintenance (replacement every 5 years or so), they rank alongside MJ clamps as the last refuges of the damned. Yiddophile 03:08, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


 * AAV devices aren't meant to replace a vent system that terminates at the roof. AAV's are used when proper venting is either impossible or impractical. For example, in most of the houses I've roughed in, the kitchen sink is either centered on a window or out in the middle of the room under a bar. For a kitchen sink with a window, the window is framed with several 2x4 studs and codes limit the number of studs you can drill through (for me its two). With a bar rough in, you can't carry your vent pipe up either. You can't lay over the pipe horizontally either since you must be over the flood rim of the fixture before you can do that. I also put in two AAVs for a bar that is centered in the middle of a restuarant to vent the floor sinks there. Jmricker 22:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup of plumbing articles
FYI -- I'm cleaning up/organizing the plumbing articles. 129.237.114.171 18:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Flashing?
The article uses "flashing" in the sense of a one-way valve, which is usually an integral part of the "building clean-out". No definition of flashing in this sense exists in the Wikipedia. I would like to change the word flashing to "one-way valve", and include a link to the article for "clean-out", if one exists. --chollapete, May, 2006. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chollapete (talk • contribs) 21:35, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Remove Municipal water and waste water treatment section
There are other articles on these topics which are more complete. I think this section should just be removed. I don't even see a need for this article to link to articles like Water supply network or Waste treatment Tibbetts2c (talk) 01:55, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, and have removed the section from the article. I have moved the deleted text here, in the event that somebody wants to salvage/recycle it to a more useful location. Reify-tech (talk) 04:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Municipal water and waste water treatment
One of the primary responsibilities of local governments is to provide potable water and treatment of sewage. The potable water side is called the WTP or Water Treatment Plant; and the waste/sewage removal system is called the WWTP Waste Water Treatment Plant; A municipal system's WTP treats water and brings it to homes in compliance with federal, state, and local regulations governing water quality. The WWTP provides for the removal and treatment of waste water; the Waste water treatment facility or natural waste site (usually a body of water or river) is typically as far away from inhabited areas as practical. Where a building is unable to connect to a municipal sewage system, the Waste/Sewage treatment is accomplished by means of a septic system and periodic hauling-off of the solids produced.

Bias in Article
This article appears to have a strong bias towards the commercial products of a single company. It also appears to be almost exclusively written from an American viewpoint. To my European eyes it uses strange terminology and old-fashioned designs. Indeed, the title of this page is a term I have never even heard of before, whilst the to me extremely well-known term 'Air Admittance Valve' apparently doesn't even have a page of its own and redirects here.

I see that this talk page mentions the HepVO products but mention seems to have been removed from the page itself. I would have thought the the whole concept of waterless traps deserved at least a mention. Their existence contradicts statements on the main page. I wonder if this is a commercial editor removing mention of a competitor?

A most important distinction that should be made is between a Soil Stack (SS - a pipe that takes away waste) and a Soil Ventilation Pipe (SVP - a pipe that vents the sewer). Historically, these were usually combined, which meant that the stack had to pass through the roof with attendant thermal management problems. Separating them means that SS can use AAV and run entirely within the building, whilst the SVP is open and is entirely outside the building. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.85.79 (talk) 13:40, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Cleanup sweep / More work needed
I have done a major rewrite sweep and reorganization of the article, which I hope makes it less confusing. Currently, the article focuses on the vent system, and almost completely ignores the drain system. Coverage of this aspect needs to be improved, discussing things such as the need for smooth flow ("bellmouthed" joints) and the correct range of piping slopes for proper transport of entrained material.

Also, the article needs more globalization, and still has almost no references. Most of the unreferenced claims should be easily backed by relevant sections of one or more plumbing codes. Help from knowledgeable editors is needed. Reify-tech (talk) 15:15, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

"Venting"
The usage and primary topic of is under discussion, see talk:Venting (disambiguation) -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 05:09, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Definitions
Would be good to have descriptions or links for drain, waste, vent, soil. Saulinpa (talk) 21:50, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Attempted something :) Rogerdpack (talk) 08:01, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Confusing parsing of topic term
The article is titled "drain-waste-vent system". Is it a set of three components (the drain, the waste, the vent), or is it a vent for the "drain-waste" (elsewhere in the article, it is written as "drain-waste vent"), or something else? With the current hyphenated format, it suggests each term modifies the next, whereas if it is three separate related parts it should be endashed, or...whatever the meaning is would be formatted appropriately for it. See MOS:DASH for guidance. DMacks (talk) 14:32, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Cheater vents 2 types check or AA
We need an explanation of both these. We have an explanation for air admittance valve but a distinction is made between them by this source:

It further refers to http://www.buellinspections.com/your-plumbing-system-should-not-pass-gas-indoors to explain these. 64.231.169.63 (talk) 17:51, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

double trapping "prohibited"
From the current contents of the article, "double trapping is prohibited by plumbing codes due to its susceptibility to clogging" - that doesn't make sense. If it were just the risk of clogging, it may be undesirable, not recommended - but why *prohibit* it entirely?

The actual reason I found after checking on this topic is that double trapping creates an (mostly inelastic) air buffer between the traps, which when one trap is emptied, will pull the other empty as well, thus negating the (roof) vent and trap purpose of keeping the stink in the plumbing.

If someone can confirm - that would be a reason for prohibiting, rather than recommending against, and the article should be corrected.

--87.234.239.90 (talk) 10:11, 11 June 2020 (UTC)