Talk:Draining of the Mesopotamian Marshes

Recent name change and edits
The name of this article was recently changed as well as it being expanded. While the Mesopotamian Marshes, Hawizeh Marshes and Hammar Marshes articles that are related to this one need a lot of work, I don't think this article and the direction it went in is right. The Central (Qurna) Marsh was not the only one drained or targeted for draining. The draining from the mid-20th century to 2003 effected other marshes as well, see map at the bottom of this page. Each marsh article has a section on draining although they are much similar. The Central Marshes are better described as a place rather than an event. These marshes are old and their geographic location has been inhabited for longer than most other places on earth. While most notable in recent memory, 30 years of draining should not be used as a descriptor in the title. Such edits should have been discussed prior to major changes in this article. --NortyNort (Holla) 13:22, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * hi nortynort, thank you. I completely agree. Considered doing this initially, but then flaked out. I'll fork the page into a clear location, and a clear event, and fix the links.Spencerk (talk) 16:51, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I recently expanded the Mesopotamian Marshes article because I got sick of seeing it as a stub. I did a summary section for the draining of the marshes here and am going to work some of the info along with more details I researched into this article in the coming days. The draining was different for each marsh and occurred for different reasons.--NortyNort (Holla) 12:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Good job with this. Incidentally an organisation called Nature Iraq is currently working on plans to mitigate the effect of increased water abstraction by Turkey and Iran (the impact of the latter on the Kharkeh River is becoming quite serious). Might be worth including some text on their efforts and that of other organisations.Svejk74 (talk) 09:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It is surprisingly hard to find a good source on the marshes or the draining with all the info. Good thing we have a tertiary source like Wikipedia. I know the Iraq Government has done a lot and some of that is hard to find. I also found some info on an intercepted plan of Saddam to drain the marshes but can't find much to confirm that in later reporting. Also, here is an old one from back when the construction on the Third River was being completed. I think these would help and expand the article. I also haven't seen any books that deal directly with the marshes.--NortyNort (Holla) 11:49, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sources I have read indicate that the technical detail of the Ba'ath government plans to drain the marshes was, curiously enough, based directly on the irrigation and draining plans originally drawn up by the British civil service in the 1950s and by consultants Mott MacDonald (then Murdoch MacDonald) in the 1960s. Anyway, there seem to have been a few books published, though not many: The Iraqi Marshlands: a human and environmental study by Nicholson & Clark, 2003, seems to be one (I haven't read it). Thesiger's study The Marsh Arabs is the classic text, mostly covering the Central Marshes with a few visits to the Hawizeh Marshes, with a useful map of tribal areas.Svejk74 (talk) 16:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I will look those up. From what I have read as well, I agree with you that the draining plans seem to be the same irrigating plans. The Nasiriyah Drainage Pump Station, recently completed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, to drain run-off happens to feed the Third River (MOD). I guess now one can assume it doesn't have a sinister purpose. I want to put all of this together without WP:OR.--NortyNort (Holla) 08:53, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

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