Talk:Drascombe

There is some discussion at the Drascombe Association forum about what should be included on this page. Otter Man 18:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

What the hell does GRP stand for?

GRP = (fibre)Glass Reinforced Plastic

Critique of the article: The article in the present form contains errors, misrepresentations and leaves certain well known facts unmentioned. In the encyclopedic spirit of 'Wikipedia' it should be corrected and completed for fairness, or be deleted.


 * 'Drascombe' is a commercial brand, not a boat class.

The trademark 'Drascombe' is licensed exclusively to only one manufacturer of boats designed by John Watkinson.

The artcile leaves other existing manufacturers, sellers and repairers of materially identical boats designed by John Watkinson unmentioned and unlinked. Why?

The article falsely lists two boats as 'Drascombe' in the meaning to be designed by John Watkinson, 'Caboteur' and 'Drifter 22'. These boats were not designed by John Watkinson, they are only branded as 'Drascombe'.

The author of the article -Otter Man|Otter Man- has requested that the discussion of his article should take place here, so here goes ... Craicboat 09:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Critique
What country do these come from? Also, the article reads like a PR/sales piece: is 'The epitome of rugged simplicity, reliability, and seaworthiness in an open boat, the Lugger is equally at home pottering with the kids or undertaking more adventuresome expeditions' suitable for an encyclopaedia? I think not. 86.136.195.79 10:44, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Let's go
This is an encyclopedic entry for the word Drascombe. It started as a PR job but now that I understand how Wikipedia works I will start to make it encyclopedic with the help of other Drascombe fans. As Craicboat says, Drascombe is actually a brand name so the entry should start from that point.

Otter Man 17:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Progress
The article has been modified somewhat over night, thanks.

The article now -rightly- identifies 'Drascombe' as commercial brand, but it -falsely- implies the present brand owner Churchouse Boats Ltd. has a material connection with the thousands of boats produced and sold with the label 'Drascombe' in the past. Most of those 'Drascombes' were produced and sold by the -then- brand owner Honnor Marine Ltd., to which Churchouse Boats Ltd. is not a successor or with which it has any relations.Craicboat 05:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Drascombe 'the brand' versus Drascombe 'the boat'
The prefix 'Drascombe' applies to a range of very successful boats produced over the years by different manufacturers. A production boatbuilder will always register the brand name of his range of boats. The focus of the discussions here are triggered by the opening sentence of the article. Suggest that this is deleted and the second sentence is edited to become 'The name Drascombe applies to a series of sailing boats .......' Somewhere else in the article can be inserted the name of the current license holder of the Drascombe trademark. I would do the edit myself but I prefer to leave it to the main contributors to this article who are doing an excellent job. Boatman 09:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Is the trademark Drascombe owned by Churchouse Boats or is it licensed from the owner(s) who are, presumeably, his widow and family. I suspect the second in which case the history of the licences should be included. Thinking about this a bit more I realise that there other boat builders in the world who, I believe, hold Licenses to make Drascombes and use the name.


 * East West Custom Boats say "English Wooden Drascombe™ Sailboats - Licensed United States Builder" on their website, for example.
 * Is there anyway of finding out who currently holds licenses and who in the past have held them? All this to get the first sentence right! Otter Man 13:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * My spies tell me that a John Kerr held it in Wales for wooden drascombes, but that he has since died. You will find this of interest however . Incidently you (Otter Man) removed my edit about 'in addition to being dependable seagoing craft'. I don't know if that was in response to the grumbles about the non-encylcopedic tone, but it is certainly verifiable (e.g. Vandersmissen) Ben MacDui (Talk) 20:25, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I will reintroduce your statement in a section describing Drascombe boats which I am developing off-line. The link that you give about John Kerr is to my website about wooden Drascombes. Otter Man 07:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Apologies - it's a small (drascombe) world! I was sent the URL and never noticed the connection. Ben MacDui (Talk) 17:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Different manufacturers; should be named.
Boatman has made a very good proposal to make it clear that the Drascombe boats were/are built by several manufacturers. In the true encyclopedic spirit of Wikipedia I think the information should be added, who these manufacturers were, and are today.Craicboat 10:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I am quite happy to add this information if we know it. In my research I have identified 9 builders of wooden Drascombes who all, presumeably, had licenses from John Watkinson. Are there any more? Otter Man 18:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

East-West you found yourself, very interesting BTW, then McNulty Ltd., but by far the biggest was Honnor Marine Ltd. . Maybe others know some more, like I think there was a Honnor Marine subsidiary firm in the US. Craicboat 18:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Red links
It strikes me that there are a number of red links about, mostly builders/designers. There are two choices, either someone creates an article for each one, or another section could be made of the same name (builders and designers, or John Watkinson) within the article and linked internally. Ukebert 21:32, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Great article now.
I had been critical at first, but with the many corrections and improvements done since, I must say it is a great article now, and excellent encyclopedic reference. Well done, all.Craicboat 08:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Webb Chiles website
A link to the Webb Chiles website I added to the External links section of the article has just been deleted, the reason for deletion given being that the website is somehow not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Given that users can download free PDF copies of Webb Chiles' two books about his attempted circumnavigation and also Html copies of magazine articles which he wrote, I think that the link is very worth including. {See WP:External links)         ←   ZScarpia  14:39, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This article is an encyclpedia entry defining the range of Drascombe boats. The resolution is to have a dedicated separate article for Web Chiles, the Drascombe article can then link to the Web Chiles article in the context of notable voyages. Boatman (talk) 20:09, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In the meantime, do you have any objection to a link to his website, which has extensive documentation about his attempted circumnavigation in a Lugger, something which is described in the article, being included here? I would have no objection to it being removed once a Webb Chiles article has been created. Looking at the article, it seems to have already grown beyond simply defining the range of Drascombe boats. You haven't commented on why you remarked that the website is not appropriate for an encyclopedia.       ←   ZScarpia  20:54, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The 12 pages displayed from the tabs on the home page make no reference to Drascombe boats other than Mr Chiles owned two Luggers in the 1980's. The web site is a focussed very personal website written by Mr Chiles and hence is not an appropriate encyclopedia link. From my side (as a reviewer) it is not appropriate to an encyclopedia. If you feel differently please feel free to re-instate. From my side I will make no further comments.  Thanks for your interest.  Boatman (talk) 08:36, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The site contains: downloadable PDF versions of the two books Webb Chiles wrote about his attempted circumnavigation; articles about the same. There is more information there other than that Chiles owned two Luggers in the 80s.      ←   ZScarpia  09:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070205201128/http://users.powernet.co.uk:80/churchouse/index.htm to http://users.powernet.co.uk/churchouse/index.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070109183137/http://www.eastwestboats.com:80/ to http://www.eastwestboats.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070319003413/http://www.ybw.com:80/auto/newsdesk/20020121144056cbnews.html to http://www.ybw.com/auto/newsdesk/20020121144056cbnews.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mcnultyboats.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070418102516/http://www.honnormarine.co.uk:80/navpg2/navpg2.htm to http://www.honnormarine.co.uk/navpg2/navpg2.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927023007/http://homepages.tesco.net/~colin.watt1/wooden/hermes.htm to http://homepages.tesco.net/~colin.watt1/wooden/hermes.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929102141/http://homepages.tesco.net/~colin.watt1/wooden/watkinson/johnwatkinson00.htm to http://homepages.tesco.net/~colin.watt1/wooden/watkinson/johnwatkinson00.htm

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070929102141/http://homepages.tesco.net/~colin.watt1/wooden/watkinson/johnwatkinson00.htm to http://homepages.tesco.net/~colin.watt1/wooden/watkinson/johnwatkinson00.htm

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