Talk:Drawn Together/Archive 1

Disturbing Thoughts
As you may know, there are several eposodes were dureing a characters process of thought, they run thru several photos, in such a way that it is dispurbing (such as showing a picture of a boy and then a buch of bloody choped meat). Should'nt the article cover this?


 * It could maybe go under Running gags on Drawn Together.Raymondluxuryacht 05:10, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Show Triva + Baseball
Maybe I'm missing something, but is there a strong reason behind including the event with the Boston Red Sox and the airing of the pilot episode? Like, is there a Red Sox reference somewhere in Drawn Together that I'm missing? I suggest removing this bit of trivia if there's no strong relation between Drawn Together and the Red Sox. If we want to keep it, let's at least mention the full date of that event. --Htmlism 19:15, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Ling-Ling ?= It
Why is the pronoun for Ling-Ling "it"? Reub2000 09:03, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * On the show, the other characters usually call Ling-Ling "it", though they occasionally use male terminology ("little guy", etc.). But Comedy Central's site also calls Ling-Ling "it", so that makes it somewhat official. --Arteitle 09:59, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)


 * I just wanted to add that my first guess was that Ling-Ling might be female, since that would make the house's constituency four males and four females, but of course that's not definitive. I don't think it has been shown to have a bunk in either bedroom. --Arteitle 06:41, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * It's just a reference to the fact that Pokémon (which Ling-Ling is a parody of) are almost never addressed with a gendered pronoun on the anime. (trogga)


 * Ling-Ling is definitely male. In the season 1 finale, he's on the guys' team during the Apprentice parody. In "Clum Babies", his father addresses him as "most honorable son". I think he's usually called "it" to illustrate how the housemates think of him more as a pet than as a roommate. Raymondluxuryacht 09:48, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

In a recent episode ling ling had an arranged battle(marriage) to a female pokemon thing, so he's definately male.
 * Not to mention that in "Super Nanny", he talks about having an enormous penis, and his driver's license in that same episode identifies his gender as male. Needless to say, there really isn't any more room for debate on the matter; the question of Ling-Ling's gender has been answered definitively.Raymondluxuryacht 07:20, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

It is because Ling-Ling is suppossed to be a parody of pokemon as trogga said. If my memory serves me correctly all pokemon, no matter female or male they may appear, are called "it". Zachorious 07:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Is it over?
In the last epidsode, with the destruction of the house, the show seemed to be over. However, Wooldoor questions weather the show will continue. Does anybody know? Reub2000 21:56, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know for sure, but I thought the ending left it wide open for a second season. They wound up crashed on an island or something, which looks like a Survivor spoof is forthcoming.  Or, they could just start again with new characters in a new house, which happens every season on reality shows anyway. Tuf-Kat 22:00, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)


 * It should be interesting. Drawn Together is a great show. -- Rebelstrike 22:53, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Spanky Ham = Porky Pig?
I always thought that Spanky was a parody of Porky Pig, popular in all of the Warner Brothers cartoons.

--Aside from both being pigs, they really have nothing in common.


 * The premise for the character, according to the show, is "a crass Internet download", which is the reason for the relatively simple shapes and clearly defined edges of the character, typical of many characters in media such as 'Flash' animation.--Jeffro77 05:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I think he's supposed to be a parody of one of Killfrog.com's evil piggies. The voices and personalities are pretty similar. Check Killfrog.com and watch an animation like The Evil Piggies Show. They also appear in Little Suzie animations. --DryGoatAir (talk) 22:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Wooldor Sockbat
Is Wooldoor Sockbat really meant to be Jewish? I mean, it was supposed to be a metaphor/satire, with the Sockbats representing the Jews and the Sweetcakes the Germans, but I dont think they really were Jewish or German. --DrBat 02:45, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd have to agree. There was a definite parallel drawn between the Sockbats and the WWII Jews in that episode, but that was just a metaphor they used for that one story. I don't think it was intended to indicate that Wooldoor was actually Jewish. Other episodes seem to indicate he is definitely not Jewish. In "Clum Babies", he appears to share the same Christian faith as Clara. Raymondluxuryacht 09:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I think Wooldoor Sockbat is almost as much a parody of Stimpy (Stimpson J. Cat) from Ren & Stimpy as he is of Spongebob Squarepants. --Anon.
 * I think Spongebob is the primary influence for Wooldoor visually, but his personality draws from just about all of the "wacky"-type characters that have inhabited cartoons through the years: Spongebob, Bugs Bunny, Stimpy, Woody Woodpecker, etc.Raymondluxuryacht 01:00, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * In one of the "flashback" parts of an episode, it was shown that Wooldoor actually introduced Clara to the Christian Religion because she was so gullible. NetStormer 07:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree that Wooldoor can be compared to Bugs Bunny because Bugs is always miles ahead of everyone during a skit. He is one smart bunny, whereas Wooldoor is not that savvy; he seems rather innocent compared to Bugs. But on the other hand I totally agree about Wooldoor being comparable to Spongebob and Stimpy Progman3K 03:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Toot
Is Toot really a parody of a goth teenager? I haven't heard that from any sources I've seen, and her black/white animation is because she's a 1920's animated character. Not to mention her personality seems very not-goth.Virogtheconq 06:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, she's more a parody of Betty Boop. --DrBat 12:46, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

There might be a little something to that notion. Remember, each of the characters is not only a parody of a well-known cartoon icon, but a parody of the basic personality types found on reality shows as well. For example, Foxxy is the sassy black woman, Clara is the naive daddy's girl, Xandir is the token gay man, etc. Toot might have initially been envisioned as a goth parody. Her cutting herself "to relieve the pain" in the first episode backs this up. If that was the case, though, they never followed through on it. Once they came up with the manipulative bitch angle, they decided to follow that route instead, since it's a much more fertile ground for comedy.Raymondluxuryacht 00:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

South Park's moral messages
I wonder if this line is appropriate:


 * though the creators take great pains to avoid inserting any moral messages like its fellow Comedy Central animated show South Park.

The creators of South Park did an interview with Charlie Rose (show), and in it, they stated pretty clearly that although South Park shows have "moral messages" to them, those messages don't correspond to the creator's actual beliefs, and that they go to great pains to make South Park's moral messages unexpected... the moral messages are certainly never consistently liberal or consistently conservative, and usually the moral of the story is part of a plot twist, it's not something you saw coming. So I don't know if the reference to south park is justified, or if it is, it should be clarified to something like "while both shows are apolitical, South Park does this by inserting fake moral messages, while Drawn Together chooses to avoid such messages altogether". But it's probably better to remove this specific reference of South Park. --Interiot 21:32, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It's not a bad concept, but I think I'd reword it, since it's a bit misleading as stated. South Park does have moral messages, it just always expresses them in a satirical fashion. The only moral message Drawn Together really has is the way it criticizes stereotypes, and that's not really a moral message so much as general satire. I'd maybe alter it to something like, "the creators generally try to avoid inserting any moral messages, though when they do use such messages, it's always done in a heavily satirical fashion, much like its fellow Comedy Central animated show South Park.Raymondluxuryacht 06:38, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've rewritten the section to hopefully make everything a little clearer.Raymondluxuryacht 11:06, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Good job, the article's changes are very well written. --Interiot 14:37, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Drawn Together is not void of moral messages at all. Just look at the obvious references to stem-cell research in the Clum Baby episode (Wooldor's sperm - Clum Babies - are used to cure people's diseases, and Clara - the voice of conservative Christians - means to put an end to Spanky's and Foxy's business to sell Wooldor's all-curing Clum Babies - which of course represent stem cells).


 * Your message is basically voided if you dont sign your name with 4 of ~ Mike 20:19, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've had another go at rewriting the section, trying to take out the ambiguities and hopefully end up with something closer to reality.Raymondluxuryacht 01:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Star Wars References
It just occured to me that parodies of the Star Wars films seem to show up in a majority of the episodes - would this be worth noting in the description of the show?Virogtheconq
 * Possibly. The main argument against it would be that tons of shows parody the Star Wars movies; Drawn Together is not unique in that regard. It would be cool, though, to put together a separate article for it. The South Park article has a page for Star Trek references; it could work something like that.Raymondluxuryacht 04:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say it's necessarily unique to Drawn Together, but that doesn't change the fact that Star Wars a significant source of material for the show. I was just thinking of putting in a little one-sentence blurb, unless someone else wants to rewatch all the episodes and compile a list of every single reference =O). Virogtheconq
 * Good point. It's not really unique, but you're right, it is an interesting fact, and would be worth mentioning. Given the number of sources that the show draws from, there are an inordinate number of references to that one particular series, especially given that there aren't any elements in the premise or the characters that would automatically suggest Star Wars references. (For instance, there are tons of Superman references, but you would expect that, given the character of Captain Hero).Raymondluxuryacht 08:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've added a section for running jokes, and I mentioned Star Wars. If anyone wants to elaborate or add others, by all means, go ahead. I refrained from mentioning character-specific gags, since there are too many of those to count, and those are probably better suited to the characters page.Raymondluxuryacht 08:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Edited version?
The side of the main page says the edited version's rating is TV-14 instead of the usual TV-MA. What edited version? I've never seen or heard of a TV-14 version of Drawn Together. --Evildevil 21:29, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Possibly it's edited for broadcast in other countries, but as far as I know, those ratings only apply to US broadcasts. I'd say the tag should probably be removed. Perhaps someone was thinking of South Park (which is edited to TV-14 for syndication).Raymondluxuryacht 04:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

As I thought. Me may want to wait for season 8 for the need for a syndicated Drawn Together, with a lowered rating. Though, I cant picture a watered down Drawn Together. If it hasnt been removed already, I'll be changing it. --Evildevil 17:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

2004 or 2005??
Didn't this show come out in 2005? Zachorious 07:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The first season aired in late 2004. It might seem like it just started in 2005 because Comedy Central didn't keep it on the schedule during the long hiatus between the first and second seasons.Raymondluxuryacht 07:14, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Deaths of Spanky
I just wanted to ask a question, in "Clum Babies" Spanky dies by getting shot at point blank range through the forehead by Bob the Cucumber. However in "A Very Special Drawn Together Afterschool Special" Spanky is shot repeatedly in the shoot out getting shot at least 4 times in the stomach and chest and still is able to fight. When the camera pans back to Spanky after Toot dies Spanky is seen with a clear shot to the forehead. Is this a way of saying Spanky can only be killed by a head wound or it is just a coincidence? Jaedza 01:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting detail, but I doubt it's intentional. Filmmakers tend to depict shots to the forehead quite often because they leave behind a very striking and memorable visual image. If you'll notice, several of the characters in "Clum Babies" were killed with shots to the forehead, not just Spanky.Raymondluxuryacht 01:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Original Xandir
In the DVD commentary for Hot Tub, the creators discuss how they were forced to fire the actor who was originally to play Xandir, and ended up hiring Jack Plotnick. I've never been able to catch the actor's name they mention. It sounds like they say "Matt Faxon". Does anyone know his actual name?Raymondluxuryacht 20:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

it might be Nat Faxon, but i cant seem to find any connection between him and drawn together other than that he is a real card and might have the kind of personality that would suggest that he was 'too gay' -Lordraydens 21:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I went back and listened to the commentary again, and you're right, they are saying Nat Faxon. There probably wouldn't be any connection you could find on him related to Drawn Together since he was fired before the show even went into production, but the personality does sound about right.Raymondluxuryacht 05:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Clara Racist Against Self?
Why is Clara so Homophobic? She was shown making out with Foxxy. She even made a song about Foxxy's tounge in her mouth!Looks like Clara is bi but she doesnt know it! MarkDonna


 * The reasons for Clara's behavior in this regard are spelled out pretty clearly in the Princess Clara article. Clara is against gays because she's a hardcore fundamentalist Christian, and her religion teaches her that homosexuality is wrong. And you're correct, she doesn't even realize that she might be bi herself.Raymondluxuryacht 02:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Continuity
Executive Producer Bill Freiberger said on Toonzone.net concerning Drawn Together's continuity that "Very little on Drawn Together can be considered canon. If you try to find continuity on this show you'll drive yourself nuts. The only thing that's consistant is we try to make the show as funny as possible. And we'd never let a little thing like continuity get in the way of that." I think this should be added somewhere, but where? --DrBat 01:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The Content section would seem to me to be the best fit for it. I created a paragraph dealing with the show's lack of continuity and added the quote.Raymondluxuryacht 01:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA
As of 17 October 2006, I am making a speedy failing for this article to reach Good Article status, per WP:WIAGA, because of the following fatal reason: This article is totally unsourced. Please provide your reliable sources according to WP:CITE to support the three pillars of Wikipedia: neutral point of view, no element of original research and verifiable. I've put a template in this article for editors to fill in their references. Please do not consider it as discouraging. If all of those matters above have been fixed, this article can be renominate it again. Cheers. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 15:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Does anyone know the correct citation for citing an episode in a television show?  James E. Zavaleta T  C   E 17:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I added a ref section, but most of the references are from forums, which should not be used... =D   Jumping cheese  Contact 09:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Cliques
I removed this section because frankly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense:

Over the episodes the characters have formed several mini-groups among each other. Examples of this are below:
 * Captain Hero - Wooldoor, Xandir
 * Wooldoor Sockbat - Capt. Hero, Clara, Spanky
 * Toot Braunstein - Xandir, Ling-Ling, Clara, Foxxy
 * Princess Clara - Wooldoor, Toot, Foxxy
 * Foxxy Love - Clara, Toot, Ling-Ling, Xandir
 * Xandir - Capt. Hero, Toot, Foxxy
 * Ling-Ling - Toot, Foxxy, Spanky
 * Spanky Ham - Wooldoor, Ling-Ling

Is the purpose to list characters who have been paired up together in stories? Is it to list characters who are friends with each other? A lot of the pairings given are questionable on either count. When did Foxxy and Xandir interact to any great extent on the show? Or Clara and Toot? Or Toot and Foxxy? If it's going to stay, it needs to be explained better and written more clearly.Raymondluxuryacht 22:55, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Confessional
How is the confessional supposed to work? Do they get teleported there? - Sikon 09:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Uh...I think they go to a confessional room.  Jumping cheese  [[Image:Misc-tpvgames.gif|18px]] Cont @  ct 09:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There's no consistency to it. Sometimes it's clear they just enter it in the house like normal, but sometimes they appear in it out of nowhere. In the two most recent episodes, they do confessional segments that don't even take place in the house. (Toot and Ling-Ling in Mexico, Foxxy in the mall.) It's basically just a running gag. Wherever they are, a confessional appears around them. Whatever suits the story.Raymondluxuryacht 09:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think Ling-Ling's father's comment ("Hey, what is this room for?") implies he had no idea how he got there... - Sikon 12:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True, but in "Lost in Parking Space", we see Clara enter it and sit down. While it appears that they're teleported into it sometimes, that's not always the case. Whatever suits the story, really.Raymondluxuryacht 20:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

"Full name is Ling-Ling Hitler Ben Laden Starlight"
Source? - Sikon 14:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Jun-Jee states that Ling-Ling's full name is "Ling-Ling Hitler Bin Laden Seacrest", referring to Adolf Hitler, Osama bin Laden, and Ryan Seacrest (equating American Idol host Seacrest with Hitler and bin Laden). Executive Producer Bill Freiberger has stated that this supposed revelation of Ling-Ling's full name is merely a gag, and not canon.[1] - Freaks & Greeks Raul654 15:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Remove the cultural references
I'm going to suggest that the cultural reference be removed as it doesn't say what eps they are from and isnt very usefully at the moment and is basicly a list of references totally out of context (Gnevin 01:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC))


 * I've been on the edge of doing that for a long time. I think they're interesting, but the list is too difficult to maintain, as people keep adding new ones (without saying what episode they're from or what the reference is) which aren't even listed on any of the corresponding episode pages.Raymondluxuryacht 01:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

second suggestion

 * Drawn_Together to ->Songs of Drawn Together move
 * Drawn_Together to -> Guests in Drawn Together confessional (Gnevin 01:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC))

Current Status...
What is it71.172.31.250 21:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * All we know at the moment is already in the article: "The show's status is currently in limbo. Comedy Central has not ordered a fourth season, but the show has not been officially cancelled. In emails sent to fans by co-creator Matt Silverstein, he states that Comedy Central considers the show "way too dirty and way too expensive" for the network, but has indicated that there is a chance the show could return if the network's upcoming new shows fail. The second half of Season Three is projected to begin airing in October 2007."

If more information is made available, I'm sure it will be added.Raymondluxuryacht 21:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The Adult Swim comment
I tried to delete the part about how it was only negative because of being a rival network but the line keeps coming back and I feel that the line comes off more of an opinion than an actual fact


 * That's all you needed to say. I kept putting it back because you didn't provide a reason for taking it out in the edit summary. Unexplained removal of text can be construed as vandalism.Raymondluxuryacht 19:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

^^^^ Raymond...that is a really stupid thing to say. You leaving it up even though you knew it had no place but only because no one gave a reason for deleting it. Laff, and you wonder why Wikipedia is seen as missing the mark on many things. Then you threaten Vandalism...ok big boy with alll the power. The only reason why I came into the discussion section was to propose removing the Adult Swim bumper since it is so obscure as to insult the "Praise" section of Wikipedia. It would be like me writing that my 'friend' said the show stunk so I should add that to the page. BTW, I'm not the poster of the first part of this. Delete the Adult Swim, do your job, and don't wait for someone to ask you to do something in order to do the right thing. I'm quite annoyed at that comment Raymond. 68.225.235.242 (talk) 00:59, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
This is a low-rated, second-tier cable show that is essentially cancelled. Why does it deserve a whole series of overlong, over-elaborate articles? One, maybe, but not one for every character. At minimum, these all need serious cleanup. I edit articles about Spanish soap operas with FAR larger audiences and they run just a few paragraphs. See, for example, Marina, which has triple the viewership and quadruple the episode count.

This just seems obsessive. The mere fact that something is animated does not make it deserve of undue weight. Yakuman 02:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC) --JVersteeg 17:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC):If you disagree with the existance of those articles, nominate them on AFD (chances are extremely good they will not be deleted). But beyond that, a cleanup tag does not belong on this article. Raul654 02:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

There are HUGE differences between AfD and cleanup. Simply put, there's too much extraneous stuff here. At least one-third of the material here could be removed. It's just too much redundancy, trivial details and banal insignificant banter. Wikipedia, like the rest of the world, suffers from entropy and decay. This article is no different. Make it shorter and more concise. Yakuman 02:51, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll admit, The article could do without the Songs section or the Guests in the confessional. It's pretty trivial. But even so, it seems like your argument is essentially your own opinion. It's hardly low rated and was put on hiatus because Comedy Central wanted to premiere season 3 a couple months early. I don't think it would go three seasons and pushed so fast that a season premiered when it wasn't finished if it was low-rated. Besides, It's Wikipedia. The land of over-analyzers and people with WAY too much time. What else would you expect here? DSMeatte 04:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * First off, I'll second that neither Songs nor Guests is needed, so I'll go ahead and remove those. But that aside, DSMeatte is right, your argument is essentially based in opinion. "Second-tier" is entirely opinion; there are lot of people who enjoy this show, and furthermore, who read and enjoy the articles on it. Secondly, "low-rated" is not even factual; it's the second highest rated show on the network behind South Park. But more importantly, just because you personally don't consider a subject notable doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be written with thoroughness if people are willing to do it. If there are other subjects you consider more important, why not take time to build THEM up?Raymondluxuryacht 05:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the article is fine now. Not too many insignificant details or useless trivia but enough information for (already nostalgic) fans (like myself). --JVersteeg 17:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

First off, it's not for 'editors' (and I use that term extremely loosely) to determine what should or shouldn't be in an article WHEN THE MATERIAL IS RELEVANT. Can we understand that? If the material is 100 pages long but stays strictly on the topic of the show, then as long as there are the quick-links (#link) and it is navigable, then the content stays. There is NO set list of how much content or how little content a page on Wikipedia can have. The only rule is if the content is relevant to the article. You pseudo-admins think you have the delete powers of Zeus Almighty, judging and determining what stays and what goes. News flash, you don't have that power buddy. You're job is to keep the article free from Vandalism (such as having a giant Penis in the middle of the page), false info, and copyright material that is illegal to use. I love wikipedia but the shit you guys bicker over is beyond me. I'm not even a huge fan of DRAWN TOGETHER but I found the content (sans the Adult Swim stuff, which I wrote about above) pleasant and informative.

Please get rid of your fine-tooth combs and don't overstep your boundaries. Thank you. 68.225.235.242 (talk) 01:07, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's a substantive suggestion for improvement, if anyone cares to make the effort: All of the voice credits should be moved from the character paragraphs into three tables for the English, Spanish, and Japanese versions. Rationale: the characters as literary creations are of great interest to all viewers; the voice actors' names are of marginal interest, especially outside a given viewer's own language. -- 76.94.222.199 (talk) 11:27, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Deletion
I removed:
 * The film clip accompanying the Double Hemm Productions logo is a windstorm on the original Tacoma Narrows Bridge (also known as Galloping Gertie), capturing the bridge about to collapse.

It was not relevant to the section it was in, and no existing section seemed appropriate for it. Perhaps someone can think of somewhere appropriate for it.--Jeffro77 22:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)