Talk:Dream: Japan GP Final

Article title
It's not called DREAM 17... It is DREAM: Japan GP Final — Preceding unsigned comment added by NuclearSun (talk • contribs)
 * NuclearSun and I have been discussing this article's title on his talk page. It does appear that "Dream.17" is the wrong title for this event.  Sherdog's list of Dream events has Dream 17 as a different event from this one.  NuclearSun also provided a link to an article at MMAJunkie about Dream's upcoming event numbered 17.
 * As for this event's name, the link provided in the article to Dream's website suggests a couple titles from the short "Dream Japan GP Final" to the more lengthy "FIGHT FOR JAPAN "~ Japan Tournament Final Grade DREAM JAPAN GP FINAL ~ 2011 Bantam"". Sherdog calls this event "Dream - Fight for Japan: 2011 Japan Bantamweight Tournament Final".
 * Any suggestions from the peanut gallery as to what to rename this article to? "Dream: Japan GP Final" or one of the longer titles?  --TreyGeek (talk) 21:06, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The confusion comes because this event was supposed to be Dream 17, but plans for this changed with the earthquake. Take note that several reliable English sources, like ESPN, do call the event Dream 17. In fact, I have seen it named as DREAM.17: Japan GP Final. But, since Japanese reliable sources independent of Dream do not call the event Dream.17, we can assume that "17" is no longer part of the event name. Per WP:AT, we go with the term more commonly used in English reliable sources, not the official name. Reliable sources in English use a wide variety of terms for the even as seen here, here, here and here. I recommend using Dream Fight for Japan: 2011 Japan Bantamweight Tournament Final as the article title, based on these results from a search engine test:
 * "DREAM Bantamweight Japan GP Final" 14,600 results
 * "DREAM: Japan GP Final" 209,000 results
 * "Dream Fight for Japan: 2011 Japan Bantamweight Tournament Final" 1,180,000 results
 * Search engine tests must not be taken as accurate, so, if anyone finds specific reliable sources in English that use one term over other, then that one should be used.
 * With that said, although I have doubts about using "Fight for Japan" as that is the same as what "Fields" was in other events, it appears that the more commonly used term in English reliable sources is Dream Fight for Japan: 2011 Japan Bantamweight Tournament Final. Take note that we do not stylize Dream in caps per WP:MJ, MOS:TM and MOS:CAPS. Also, I do not use "-" because that is not used by Dream or any source that has an actual article about the event, and it is only a convention used by Sherdog's system followed for convenience by other online publications, not correct punctuation, which should be either ":" or ",". Alternatively, we could wait until it is shown on HDNet to determine the correct article title. Jfgslo (talk) 23:28, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Dream.17 was officially anounced today. With new rules about 3 5 minute rounds. http://mmajunkie.com/news/24579/dream-17-official-for-september-organization-to-use-three-five-minute-rounds.mma NuclearSun (talk) 22:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * FYI, HDNet has the card on its schedule online] and is titled "DREAM - Japan GP Final". That is also the same name used on the Dream website.  --TreyGeek (talk) 22:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Well this event was called Dream.17 (by the promotion and all the major mma media) UNTIL the actual day of the event when they decided to change it. Now DREAM and the media are calling it the second FFJ show lol- http://www.sherdog.com/organizations/Dream-1357 (Sherdog still links all the old articles to this event with Dream.17). Either way I think its safe to rename this article now and call the September event Dream.17 (until of course that event name is changed...)(Justinsane15 (talk) 23:03, 27 July 2011 (UTC))
 * While I'm not against using Dream. Fight for Japan! 2, is this name actually used? I haven't seen it named like that. Jfgslo (talk) 23:33, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If you look at the previous ones the names are only Dream 1, Dream 2, etc. The subtitles are on the page but not in the official name. Here I named it exactly like the consensus from the previous FFJ event. However, since it has the same name, the 2 was necessary. (I did see it at least on one site). I'm not opposed to changing the name again, however the original FFJ page should then be changed for consistency purposes (Consistency), as well the page should be consistent with all the other DREAM events (except for the NYE events of course). (Justinsane15 (talk) 23:39, 27 July 2011 (UTC))
 * The problem is that the previous event is indeed known in English reliable sources as Dream: Fight for Japan! (with ":", not "."). Of this one, I'm not sure what should be the name. I guess that the current one is okay, although I don't see any sources used in the article actually using it. What do other editors think? By the way, Consistency is no longer in use, so that is not a concern when renaming this article. Jfgslo (talk) 23:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I still think it should be called "DREAM: Japan GP Final" like on the poster. Even add "Fight For Japan!" if needed. NuclearSun (talk) 00:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * MMA Junkie does use that name. Are there other reliable sources in English that use that title? Are there other editors that think that Dream: Japan GP Final should be the title? I honestly do not like the long Dream Fight for Japan: 2011 Japan Bantamweight Tournament Final and would rather use Dream: Japan GP Final if other editors agree. Jfgslo (talk) 01:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * If people come to Wikipedia to find out more about this event how are they going to find this article? The now current article title doesn't match up to any of the common versions of the name that people would be searching on.  --TreyGeek (talk) 01:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That is indeed the problem with Dream. Fight for Japan! 2. That is the reason why WP:AT is a policy and I believe that the current title should be changed. Jfgslo (talk) 01:31, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I can support the article title being "Dream: Japan GP Final" since that's what Dream calls it in their promotional material and HDNet titles the event for the US. I think then we can also create "Dream Fight for Japan: 2011 Japan Bantamweight Tournament Final" as a redirect to the shorter version of the article title to cover both bases.  --TreyGeek (talk) 01:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

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