Talk:Dress shirt

Disambiguation
I've added a section on dress shirts according to the UK meaning at the bottom of this article, but wouldn't a disambiguation be a better approach? There's quite a big difference between everyday shirts worn to work and dress shirts. —unsigned, c.2006

"smart"
It is commonly thought of in fashion culture, that a shirt is defined as an item of formalwear or as a smart item of clothing.


 * Is this a British usage of the word "smart?" If so, why is it in a section that deals with dress shirts in the US? --Temtem 01:13, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Sizing
Maybe someone can add a bit about shirt sizes... I still dont know what the numbers are in reference to. Thanks! --Wesman83 20:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC) :See US standard clothing size for a partial explanation. 216.57.77.75 20:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

SCANC
This really didn't seem appropriate. Mp 11:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

''Button-downs are a travesty, but in certain design cases, Oxford shirts in particular, they can be abided by. Much stress is caused by button-downs, and a society has been formed to stamp this out. Sartorial Conoisseurs Against Non-Standard Collars, or SCANC''


 * Agreed. 216.57.77.75 20:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Collars
I just removed this sentence:
 * Button downs are generally used by individuals who have no control over the curvitude of their collars, hence no control over their lives. Such people would not be uncomfortable living in a Chinese slave-labour prison, where their every move is monitored and controled, and even poo time is restricted to a quick strain-and-wipe jobbie, as it were.

reasons: it was sarcasm.Toyokuni3 (talk)
 * 1) no source has been given
 * 2) after reading over this several times, it does not make sense for me - as i'm not a native english speaker, i would appreciate some explaination if it really makes sense ;)

Button down shirt
Don't these two sentences in the current article directly contradict eachother?

1. The Name Button Down comes from the way that the buttons go down the front of the shirt. A common misconception is that they are called button downs because of the way you can attach the collar to the shirt with a button.

2. While the term button-down is sometimes used in American English to refer to shirts in general, it is still generally used, as originally, to refer to a shirt with a buttoned collar. -Andrew  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.96.186.1 (talk) 20:47, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

why is it incorrect to describe the shirt on this page as a button down shirt? Pnkrockr 16:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "button down shirt" is such a common usage in the US that it seems to have become a legitimate term, even if it wasn't in the past and isn't acceptable in other cultures.
 * So shouldn't something in the article mention that it is correct to refer to a dress shirt as a button down shirt in common American English? Pnkrockr 14:00, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Simply because it is common does not make it correct. The term "button-down" refers to, and has always referred to, a type of collar. To redefine the term to also mean "shirt" is not only confusing, but is the equivalent of calling all shoes sneakers.Desk Jockey 22:01, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Shirts with button down collars are not dress shirts. They are casual shirts and do not belong here other than to point out that they are casual shirts.198.144.208.148 (talk) 20:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Button downs, part deux
I set button-down to redirect to this page and I fleshed out the collars. If the other terms for a dress shirt are mentioned in the open, then it is unnecessary to repeat and continue to beat the dead horse about it.

Also, I'd kill to have someone that knows what they're talking about to do a bigger section on shirtings (pinpoint, oxford, broadcloth... so on so forth)

Sorry about the wierd edits here, I'm pretty tired and all.Desk Jockey 07:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC) Button down Part trois not recommended to be worn with a suit? by whom? three button suit, wing tips and button down oxford shirt with repp, club, foulard etc. tie has been the standard east coast business uniform since wwii.Toyokuni3 (talk) 05:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Number of components
The article currently says that "A traditional tailored shirt has 12 separate components", but proceeds to list only 10 (1 collar, 1 yoke, 2 sleeves, 2 cuffs, 2 front panels, 1 back, 1 placket). If the 12 is correct, what are the other 2? If it is not, it should be fixed to match the list. Ruyn 19:35, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Formal shirts
Checked Flusser (2002), p.74-75: seems misquoted: the shirt "had a separate" collar which "sat high" etc, all in past tense. Flusser concludes: "most of these designs were transformed and worked into the classic tuxedo's final composition". Could somebody check the other ref ? Lumarv (talk) 15:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry. Getting page numbers is such a nuisance, I would rather get the some basic stuff down then reference it incrementally.  I have added the relevant page number, which says: "the dinner shirt brooks no deviation from tradition ... it features a stiff (preferably separate to attach) high-standing wing collar" which is "designed to further refine the wearer's visage". Antongiavanni, is as always, more forthright (though still pretty reliable); and to say "some consider it incorrect or having a bad appearance" is pretty toned-down compared to most of the vitriolic anti-attached collars polemic (obviously not from the quoted authors). —Kan8eDie (talk) 21:09, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Basic Definition
The opening paragraph of this article does not give all the defining characteristics of a shirt. For a garment to be called a shirt it has to have: A one-piece pleated or gathered back; a narrow, one or two-piece double yoke; two front sections that overlap; flat-felled armscye, side, and underarm seams; one-piece sleeves with plackets; either barrel or French cuffs; a collar on a separate stand; and a rolled hem. 87.115.90.12 (talk) 22:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion. The definition was given at the top of the first section to avoid cluttering the lead. I have expanded it a bit along the lines you describe, though I am unsure minute detail like rolled hems are needed to call it a shirt. That would disqualify every RTW garment on the planet; a little harsh. Similarly, the felling of the seams is inconsequential to the definition I feel. Aside from that, all the detail is now contained within the article. Kan8eDie (talk) 18:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Button the Top Button?
I'm a classy guy. I am certain that you do not need to button the top button if you wear a tie. After all thats what the tie is for!!! I propose that we amend the article to reflect this fashion DO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.243.4.157 (talk) 22:08, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Notable Shirtmakers Rewrite
This portion needs to be rewritten with a source that has a better knowledge base on dress shirts than Forbes. --Todaytom (talk) 23:10, 10 November 2010 (UTC)


 * What do you mean, "a better knowledge base"? The Verifiability policy is: "articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy [...] In general, the best sources have a professional structure in place for checking or analyzing facts, legal issues, evidence, and arguments." Wouldn't you agree Forbes qualifies? Would you have a better one to suggest?  Racconish  Tk  06:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I would suggest a information from a source that's wealth of knowledge isn't mostly about business and finance. Something like GQ or Esquire_(magazine) that know more about clothes. --Todaytom (talk) 07:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If exists and has same kind of broad international coverage, why not.  Racconish  Tk  07:46, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Languages
you can make a Link to german article: Deutsch | Hemd http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemd --Slartu (talk) 13:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

History of women wearing shirts
I kind of did a double-take when seeing that "Shirts are predominantly used by men, since women usually wear blouses". I've revised it to have a reference to a journal article which talks about the history of the white dress shirt including the uptake of the buttoned dress shirt by women in the Victorian era. While men wear them more frequently there is no lack of women who wear shirts (especially in the workplace) and this edit should make that a bit clearer. That Damn Snipergirl 14:21, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Languages
you can make a Link to german article: Deutsch | Hemd http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemd --Slartu (talk) 13:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Dress Shirt's Industrial Production
I hv added this section to this page and future plan to add this type of section for similar type of product related articles. If any product related articles have information of industrial Production then it might have good chance to be well written articles. More over through image it is easy to understand main process of a product during Industrial production. Apart from this when image of finish product presented then it is difficult to avid the brand name. Only to avoid brand name need to be careful during describe. Keeping these entire things in mind I am again going to add the above section. If anyone is not agree with me or even any good suggestion to go forward pls let me know for sure those will be cordially entertained. thx

Introduction
Do we have a source for the first sentence where "Dress shirt" is referred by all those names? Heartwarming (talk) 20:31, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

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single double
"Single cuffs, the most formal style, usually only worn with formal eveningwear, are double cuffs without the fold." -- I don't understand this: single cuffs are unfolded double cuffs? 107.134.78.59 (talk) 23:00, 23 July 2018 (UTC)