Talk:Dreydlekh

proposed deletion
I proposed this page for deletion recently because it was so short and seems to be simply a definition of the Yiddish word for ornaments. As well due to Wikipedia is not a dictionary and Use English. If there is to be a well-sourced article on ornamentation in the Ashkenazic Jewish world (klezmer music, khazones, Yiddish folksong, etc?) could it have some kind of descriptive name in English? If it is only about klezmer music, why not redirect to the style selection of the Klezmer article as I suggested in the deletion nomination? --Dan Carkner (talk) 00:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not paper: we don't have to squeeze all sub-subjects into larger subject. This is a wel--defiled separate subject: musical ornaments in Klezmer music, and we have a whole category Category:Ornamentation for such subjects. The article is short because wikipedians are lazy. I made it longer and there is a potential to write more even from sources cited. Also, why do you need a descriptive name: "dreydlekh" is just as good as "glissando". Loew Galitz (talk) 00:22, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I know, I spent a few weeks last year trying to rewrite the klezmer article, it takes a lot of work to make something worth leaving up in this poorly-written-about subject area. But I really do wonder if dreydlekh is the appropriate article title - I could imagine a thousand situations where someone saw the term glissando in all kinds of contexts and looked it up - but almost none where someone would do the same for dreydlekh unless they were already reading an academic book about klezmer. if you feel strongly that you want to save this article and fill it with reliable sources - I won't pursue the matter. Dan Carkner (talk) 01:05, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I see your point: the term is hardly usable outside of klezmer music context, which in itself is rather narrow in the whole wide world of music. However you are a bit mistaken: all these krekhts and tshoks are in fact imitation of singing (e.g. by hazzanim) by a violin. Here is an example of singing with dreydlekhs I found by the first best click in Commons: [[File:Hanukka 3-3 hi (Asael).ogg]], and I would hardly call it "Klezmer :-). Same is done by the flute. On the third hand, similar ornamentations, with my limited expeerience, I can find in Gypsy, Turkish, and Arabic music.
 * That said, I am not an expert musicologist, so I leave the final decision about merging to you, because you are saying you are heavily working on klezmer article. Loew Galitz (talk) 01:44, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * P.S. As a final stroke, formally you should have proposed mergeto rather than prod. Loew Galitz (talk) 02:02, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I'm more of a researcher than a Wikipedia procedure guy. I almost never nominate things or add templates etc. Dan Carkner (talk) 02:51, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I know this conversation took place nearly a year ago. I don't know what you eventually decided to do about the article. I think the subject matter could be expanded at least a little to include other instruments besides violin. I know that clarinet, for example, uses the Krekhts ornament extensively in Klezmer. Just adding my 2 pfennigs. example youtube video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS6di5qGkoQ&t=68s Wikinoodnik (talk) 00:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think anything was decided. I still think it should be deleted and any research about ornamentation put in a subsection of the Klezmer article which is still underdeveloped. Dan Carkner (talk) 02:05, 24 December 2022 (UTC)