Talk:Du Fu/Archive 1

name
See. Tu Fu wins. --Jiang

I've added a substantial article; I haven't finished cross-linking yet, but any problems with the content are real problems, so leaping in and correcting would be nice. My first try. Markalexander100 05:53, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Naming, again
I would really, really like to move this page to Du Fu. Du is now more common in western academic writing- Stephen Owen uses it, and Burton Watson uses it in his later books. Pinyin's being adopted in Taiwan. It's phonologically more accurate. And the text of the article uses Du. (FWIW, Googlefights are now about equal- Du is slightly ahead without quote marks, Tu is slightly ahead with, but the majority is small in each case).

Would any really mind if I changed it? Markalexander100 04:17, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Done. Markalexander100 05:33, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Li Po/Li Bai
I don't know anything about Chinese names, but I was confused when I clicked on the link Li Bai, which as you can tell says "Li Bai" but links directly to the page "Li Po" without any redirect. The first few paragraphs didn't mention the name, and it wasn't until I saw "L&#464; Bái" in the infobox that I was sure I was in the right place. If you're going to link to a page where the official name is Li Po, why not use it in the text (i.e. Li Po)? - biggins | talk 03:31, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think it is important to keep a consistency style. Either we should use the term Li Po or Li Bai and stick with it throughout. Otherwise, many readers may be confused and thought that they are two seperate persons (given many Chinese name sound/spell similarly) when it is the same person. --Hurricane111 05:32, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Changes were made to use "Li Po" instead of "Li Bai" --Hurricane111 04:47, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reference?
On another page, I was challenged for using the word "prominent" without citing any evidence. Yet here, in an article that was featured for being good, we start right off with the correct but totally unsupported statement that Tu Fu is not just prominent but considered one of the two greatest poets in all of the huge Chinese tradition. Hmm. (Or do the two titles with the word great in them serve as implicit refs.) Kdammers 10:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The lead is actually an understatement.  Du Fu is considered (by everyone who knows anything about Chinese lit) the greatest Chinese poet; the hedge is just to keep Li Bai fans happy.  Statements do not need references if there is no dispute about their truth.   If you really want one, any work on DF will provide ample citations (but please don't clutter the article by adding them to the text). HenryFlower 10:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I am not sure whether he was THE GREATEST Chinese poet, but I am pretty sure he and Li Bai are considered as EQUAL in terms of significance in Chinese lit. I think there can no dispute regarding the prominence about Du Fu as this is a common knowledge at least for the Chinese community cheungie 01:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

FYI, he is a major influence on poet Charles Wright. CW references the translation by David Hinton.


 * It's a bit like comparing Eliot and Pound. Du Fu admired Li Bo intensely, but temperamentally and stylistically they are quite different.  Du Fu's verse are difficult to translate because he crafts it consummately; with Li Bo the writing is more effortless and spontaneous. 219.74.75.203 20:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Inline citations
I just fixed the inline citations with a "Notes" section and reflist, instead of having citations in parentheses at the end of sentences in the prose. I will also add some info and back up the prose in the war section from Ebrey's book.--PericlesofAthens 16:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks - good work. :) HenryFlower 11:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem. The article is very good, it just needs more proper citations.--PericlesofAthens 03:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

loyalty to established order / country ?
There's an important difference in meaning here. Loyalty to the country was pretty much universal in China for pretty much all its history, though of course one could be so loyal to the country that one felt the need to give it the benefit of one's wisdom as emperor. Loyalty to the established order -- in this case, loyalty to a thoroughly incompetent emperor and his bureaucracy, is another thing altogether, exactly what Du felt, and much more notable. As for rewording "so it is not too close to the original": firstly, given the difference in meaning between the two, closeness to the original is much to be preferred; secondly, I can't imagine any situation where two words could be the difference between a paraphrase being "too close" to the source or not. HenryFlower 13:26, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Death?
I wonder why there is no mention of the way he died, since it is a rather popular tale that he starved for many days and then overate. Hzh (talk) 10:35, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 13:53, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Du Fu as the first historically known diabetic in human history.
Indeed, Du Fu suffered from diabetes and it could have been the root cause of his death. But the first diabetic, historically recorded as such, was the famous poet Sima Xiangru 司马相如 who lived during the Han. I can send you the article on this topic that my Chinese friend shared with me.Baruchim (talk) 06:27, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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