Talk:Dublin Philharmonic Orchestra

NY Times Article
There have been a number of changes additions made to the Dublin Philharmonic page based on quotes and hearsay in a New York Times article. I am the Music Director & Conductor of the Dublin Philharmonic and I know the Exact Facts of this article. Please DO NOT change my addition or changes as my comments are the true facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Derek Gleeson (talk • contribs) 23:07, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Mr Gleeson, I'm one of the people who removed your rebuttal link/information. First, let me thank you for what are clearly your efforts to try to adhere to our policies - I notice that each time someone warns you about something you've done, you do your best to not do that again. That's really helpful of you, and I think I speak for all our editors when I say we appreciate your trying to work with us.


 * Let me try to explain my reasoning here, to see if it makes any sense to you. I see that you've already been offered a link to our conflict of interest policy, so I would suggest you first (if you haven't already) try to digest that - understand that people who have involvement with article subjects tend to be greeted with skepticism on Wikipedia, because we can't accept things those people "know" to be true, and they often have strong opinions that they want our articles to support.


 * Independent of any skepticism people might be directing toward you for having a conflict of interest, there's also the matter of reliable sources. We have fairly strict guidelines for what constitutes a "reliable" source that we can build article information off of. For example, blogs are generally excluded, because blogs tend to be opinion pieces with little-to-no editorial control or fact checking. This, in particular, is why I removed the link you added to a "rebuttal" piece - it's a blog post, where the author basically seems to have a strong opinion about not liking the New York Times (which is nearly always a reliable source, by the way) post. In addition, he doesn't actually rebut any claim of the roster having been invalid; instead he seems to sidestep the issue and say that what the NYT should have focused on was another issue, preliminary research.


 * So, when I read that blog post to check the validity of the source, my opinion was that it's probably not a reliable source (due to being a blog) to begin with, and that even if it were, it doesn't actually say what the phrasing you added to the article seems to say it says - it doesn't say that the roster was valid or invalid, or that the NYT was wrong; mostly it says that hey, other orchestras do this too, and the NYT was being mean to the Dublin Philharmonic!


 * What I'd like to see as a source for a "rebuttal" of the roster information in the article is a third-party, non-blog source which states that the NYT's claims of roster problems are incorrect or mispresented. What won't work as a rebuttal is a blog post saying "the NYT is silly!" or personal anecdotes by the conductor, eminent though he may be (because, by definition, this is not a reliable - i.e. third-party - source. It's a primary source with a conflict of interest in the topic).


 * Does this help make things any clearer? I hope so; if not, please feel free to ask for any more clarification you may need. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 01:17, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

''The following was posted on my user talk page (prior to the above discussion, to which it is relevant); I'm copying it here because it should be more visible to all interested editors. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:38, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Please STOP editing DPO site. Your comments are inaccurate. DPO is a registered Irish Charity which draws it's member from 27 member states of the European Union. (Just like any US orchestra draws it's members from the 50 US states.) Do you know how many nationalities in the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra??  Answer: 40 !!!  Work the Math!!!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Derek Gleeson (talk • contribs) 22:54, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Full-protected 3 days
I have full-protected this article for 3 days pending resolution to the issue above (which I have also cross-posted at the BLP noticeboard for assistance and to get more opinion on this). I have already directed Derek Gleeson to address his concerns to the talk page, as he did above; now everyone else is required to do the same. –MuZemike 00:25, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

NY Times Article
Thank you for taking the time to explain the editing procedure. I am new to this! The Sunday Times in Britain/Ireland will have a article this coming Sunday which will shed some more light on the matter. I am happy to wait till then. :) Best wishes, Derek Gleeson —Preceding unsigned comment added by Derek Gleeson (talk • contribs) 03:50, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request
editprotected

This article links to Vincent Kennedy, a Irish politician, rather than Vincent Kennedy, the composer. Please remove this wikilink. Thanks. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:38, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I didn't notice this, it needs to be corrected. (User:Derek Gleeson) —Preceding undated comment added 18:50, 21 May 2011 (UTC).
 * ✅-- Jac 16888 Talk 20:39, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Sunday Times / please unprotect
Great article in today's Irish edition of the Sunday Times. Sponsorship of the DPO's American tour was lower than expected, and "... only 2 out of 75 musicians were Irish". Most of the rest were from Bulgaria. Mr Gleeson is quoted as describing the DPO as a "brand", so that much is clear. Unprotect this one please.Red Hurley (talk) 09:18, 22 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you have a link to an online version of this article, Red Hurley? It might be useful for this article, but I'd need to be able to read it to be sure... A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 13:48, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Red Hurley. I deleted your comment regarding Michael Fleming. Please look at his website again carefully as you misquoted and misrepresented what is there.Derek Gleeson (talk) 15:44, 29 May 2011 (UTC)]

Red Hurley, your Sunday Times reference goes to a Wikipedia Sunday Times page and not to the referenced article. therefore I deleted it. Derek Gleeson (talk) 18:46, 29 May 2011 (UTC)]


 * References don't have to be online, so the ST link was a link for those wikipedia users who don't know what the ST is. I'm replacing it with the reference date as that is the most important point. You should look at wikipedia's policies at — SOURCE and Autobiography,Red Hurley (talk) 11:57, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Red Hurley, you again misquoted the Michale Fleming Website, I corrected it and quoted verbatim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.248.94 (talk) 14:21, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Ireland US Council
The Ireland US Council as a sponsor of the Dublin Philharmonic Orchestra's US 2009 tour issued the following press release: http://www.irelanduscouncil.com/2009/USTourDublinPhilharmonicOrchestra.aspx  Derek Gleeson (talk) 22:21, 23 May 2011 (UTC)]

Founder Derek Gleeson
Music Director & Conductor Derek Gleeson is the Founder and Director of the Dublin Philharmonic Orchestra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.248.94 (talk) 22:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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