Talk:Dudjom Jigdral Yeshe Dorje

Page issues
A couple of areas need attention on the page, and I'll begin working on the least problematic. Will refer to talk on edit summary.

° There are solid edits that need their refs (not hard) and/or quotation marks

° There's also an "Introduction" to the Biography which seems redundant and isn't well sourced. Maybe it should be shifted through. Comments before reediting this specific subsection?

° The Biography section is not in wiki chronological order - Birth, then other sections. Will shift paragraphs accordingly; the least problematic issue.

Will also add notes here if other issues are uncovered. Thanks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 16:23, 31 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Been adding/correcting text in lede, via supporting missing refs from multiple good sources.
 * Added text to Yangsi with good ref from DR center
 * Verified dudjom b a ref does provide some of the info in family; other info there still needs refs
 * Shifted sections as noted above. Compiled scattered biblio and bio links. Pasdecomplot (talk) 12:09, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Buddhism
The phrase "some Buddhists" is factually inaccurate and really imprecise, since Buddhism has evolved into many different forms in different countries. Likewise, the general use of the term 'followers' is also inaccurate. A more accurate term, if it was supported by sources, is 'students', but here the sources indicate more people than just his students. The bio is on a very well known and respected Tibetan Buddhist master, Dudjom Rinpoche. There are lots of refs and external links which explain this, and a few searches would also uncover additional sources. Pasdecomplot (talk) 10:30, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I have no objection to the statement being corrected. We just can't say "is the incarnate" or whatever in wikivoice. If you have a source saying all Buddhists believe something, or a specific group of Buddhists believe it, you can totally make that change. I don't know enough about the topic to even know where to look for that information; literally all I'm objecting to is stating religious beliefs as fact in wikivoice. —valereee (talk) 17:35, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Please read the refs. As an editor at Wikipedia, it's helpful to read refs before tagging, if there are questions. Pasdecomplot (talk) 19:43, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem is that I can't easily get to most of these refs. For instance, Light of Fearless Indestructible Wisdom. Google books doesn't have it available online. My own library system, one of the largest in the country, doesn't have it. I can order it through an interlibrary loan and it'll probably be here in a couple weeks, but if this is a source you actually have to hand, why not just attribute the opinions? That way we can get rid of the tags. —valereee (talk) 14:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikivoice
I've again tagged the stuff in the lead that we can't say in Wikivoice. Let's discuss. —valereee (talk) 18:02, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * A lede typically doesn't have refs. The enormous amount of tags aren't necessary since the lede below the image includes the refs, which is more than policy requires. Nor are the tags per policy. Please review the refs before tagging again. Please also read earlier talks. Pasdecomplot (talk) 19:41, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Trying one more time. You're correct that often we don't use refs in the lead, but when we've got anything controversial there, often we do. Right now we've got a lot of very controversial stuff there in wikivoice and sourced to iffy sources. I've tried again to neutralize the lead. —valereee (talk) 20:00, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Ref removed and tags added NOTHERE
A ref was just deleted while tags are being added without refs being read. It not helpful in building the encyclopedia. Pasdecomplot (talk) 20:07, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Probably was an edit conflict -- I didn't realize you were actively editing, sorry! What's NOTHERE? —valereee (talk) 21:38, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Light of Fearless Indestructible Wisdom by Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal
Finally got a copy of this through interlibrary loan. The opening lines of the author's introduction to this book are: "His Holiness Dudjom Rinpoche has hundreds of thousands of disciples all over the world. I am one of them."

Which means that, as an affiliated and non-independent source, this clearly cannot be used as a source for anything except what is directly attributed to the author, and it almost certainly shouldn't be used to support anything in the lead unless the author is himself important enough for his opinion to make that appropriate. —valereee (talk) 02:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)