Talk:Dueling scar

Relevance of the Jewish reference
As dueling scars were widespread, how relevant is it to make it specifically about Jewish students that can't be named outside of one famous example? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.173.104.73 (talk) 12:39, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Merge with academic fencing
There is very little on this page that isn't covered in Academic fencing andy (talk) 09:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm planning to add more to this page guys... give us minute or two! Cheers. Deathlibrarian (talk) 12:20, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Why not edit the relevant section in Academic fencing instead? This page is an unnecessary content fork, which is generally frowned on in wikipedia. The guideline is that the material should be merged back into the main article, but I can't see much that isn't already adequately covered there. andy (talk) 12:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Andy there is a great deal that is covered in detail in this article, that is not covered in the article on Academic Fencing, its quite an interesting topic, so I have covered here in detail. There is only one paragraph of four lines in the original article, this article covers the practice in a lot more detail, with a number of paragraphs. Deathlibrarian (talk) 14:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually there's a lot in the main article about scars, and there's also a lot in this article about academic fencing. Your material is badly sourced - including, for example, material taken from a blog and a wiki. I also suspect that you have not read the three 19th century articles you quote and therefore cannot be sure that they support the statements in the article. See WP:RS.
 * You should add any new material you have, if properly sourced, to the main article. If not then either this article will be deleted by an admin who agrees with my speedy deletion request, or I'll take it to AfD and seek a consensus for merging and deletion. andy (talk) 14:15, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

There is no need for personal attacks. I have read the three 19th century article, they are available (along with many others) on the Infotrac 19th Century Newspapers database, which is generally available via any major University's online provided content. I suggest you read the articles yourself before making any further judgements on what they say.Poor form!.Deathlibrarian (talk) 14:26, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * My bad. I just found it odd that someone would take such an avid interest in disfigurement. It's also odd that you're not prepared to try to improve the existing article, with which there is a huge overlap, and I will definitely pursue the issue of merging and deleting once an admin has looked at the so-called "speedy" deletion. andy (talk) 15:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

This is the entire section on dueling scars in the Academic fencing article. Its just one paragraph:

"The scar resulting from a hit is called a "smite" (German Schmiss), and was seen as a badge of honour, especially in the second half of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th. Today it is not easy for an outsider to identify mensur scars due to better medical treatment. Also the number of mandatory Mensuren were reduced in the second half of the 20th century. Most Mensur scars are located on the left temple of the forehead. Scars on the cheek and chin are rather uncommon today and sometimes due to accidents." Deathlibrarian (talk) 14:28, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I think this article would appear unwieldy put into the academic fencing article, due to its size and structure. I believe it is a distinct, but related topic, while Academic Fencing article deals with the sport, this specifically deals with the scarifitaion aspect of the dueling scar. Deathlibrarian (talk) 23:17, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Skorzenys scars
There are scources in Germany which says, Skorzenys Scars aren't Schmisse. And it's wrong that horsehair was inserted to the wounds because it made the Scar more impressive. It was made as a drainiage channel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.119.187.140 (talk) 18:42, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

It was unclear if Skorzenys scars where battle scars during the war or real schmisse. On the new picture you see a definitely a real fresh fencing scar and if you look closer above old ones on the cheek and also on the left temple. This photo illustrates dueling scars much better. Swiss safe (talk) 13:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Looks like research paper
Sorry, but this whole article reads as though it is someone's research paper, and sounds dubious at best. Dueling scars didn't exist or aren't mentioned in any sort of literature before 1825? Seriously? 66.26.95.207 (talk) 01:13, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Skorzeny
I replaced the photo of Skorzeny: The picture was made in 1943; in November of 1941 Skorzeny got a war injury at his head, so it is not clear, if the scars shown are WAR INJURIES or Schmisse. If the great wounds have been Schmisse, they are not typical. --80.140.245.201 (talk) 10:06, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

"husband material"? Oh, please. That's very much a (very tilted) 21th century viewpoint. Those "duels" weren't fought for women and improving their chances of marriage was hardly on the mind of the fighters. Those duels were a ritual which had to be performed to be welcomed in the fraternity, which then (much more than today) eased climbing the social ladder.

Horsehair
Der Einsatz von Rosshaar wurde von englischen/amerikanischen Beobachtern vermutlich mißverstanden. Roßhaar wurde in damaliger Zeit medizinisch sinnvoll als Abfluß (Drainage) verwendet. https://books.google.de/books?id=C0zVAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA826&lpg=PA826&dq=ro%C3%9Fhaar+drainage&source=bl&ots=du_MklbrRv&sig=HBz_u_Tb-MYQUSR2jePsOZ1CQ5w&hl=de&sa=X&ei=LyGMVPObOYHsO7yegIAD&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=ro%C3%9Fhaar%20drainage&f=false ("Drainage vermittels Rosshaar" means "drainage with horsehair"). --80.140.250.156 (talk) 11:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

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Article contains contradictory information.
The last paragraph of the “Nature of the scars” section states that the practice has “virtually disappeared” in modern Germany; meanwhile the very next section states that there are still hundreds of fencing fraternities and that scarring is still practiced. Which is it? Cvanwoert (talk) 20:33, 15 December 2023 (UTC)