Talk:Dungeon crawl

Merge
I think this article and Dungeon (games) should be merged. Further, since the other article is OR, and Dungeons pretty much only crop up in dungeon crawls, I think this is the one to keep. Thoughts? Percy Snoodle 10:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No arguments here, but is merging gonna be useful? This article seems to do a much better job of explaining exactly the same subject. The Kinslayer 11:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, this has been dormant for long enough. Does someone want to merge these puppies or what?> The Kinslayer 12:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I am still reading the Wikipedia guidelines so I won't offer to make the changes myself just yet- though if what I propose doesn't meet objection, I might make them eventually. What I think should happen is:


 * a) Dungeon (games) should be removed. Perhaps a brief sentence or two moved into Dungeon crawl if those sentences are valuable and aren't lacking citations.


 * b) I'll try to find a reference for the perjorative sense of Dungeon Crawl soon.


 * c) The claim that dungeon crawls have influenced Quake, etc... at the end can be removed unless someone provides a citation soon. I can see where they're coming from, but the claim is unverified and contestable.


 * d) I'll look into pedit5 and its claim of being the first dungeon crawl. I have a feeling that claim is contestable. J edward h 15:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Although I do not have a source onhand, it's commonly discussed (probably even in the Quake article itself) that Quake 1 was originally designed as an RPG. The "Quake" was a type of magical hammer the player could find and the game was meant to be more slow-paced, like Ultima Underworld or Elder Scrolls. But development went slowly on this and it was decided that returning to the FPS format was the better route and instead of scrapping everything they saved their artwork and world designs which is why it looks medieval.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.104.190.237 (talk) 16:21, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I know now might be a little bit late to be jumping into the game, but I personally think that the other article should have been kept. Dungeon crawls are made of dungeons, but dungeons do exist outside of dungeon crawls. Plus, I have never heard someone who is not REALLY into gaming even use the term "dungeon crawl", but the term "dungeon" is used even by complete n00bs. Does anyone agree with me? Is it worth undoing? Heavy Metal Cellist talkcontribs


 * I concur, actually. A dungeon crawler is a type of game; a dungeon is a place within a game. You can't have a DC without the D, but you can have dungeons in games which aren't necessarily focused around them (after all, are all MMOs 'dungeon crawlers'?). There's a fine gap here, and it seems that the two articles were only merged for the lack of valuable citations in either one. Possibly if there was a decent re-write of 'dungeons', then it could be nominated for creation. Melaisis (talk) 12:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You can have dungeon crawls that take place partially above ground such as with games like Hellgate: London, but it does have to have basis and locations underground to be classified as such.Neoyamaneko (talk) 05:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Added the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (series) games. Rwoodsmall 05:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Relatively Trivial Argument
Just as a minor note, nothing in the article mentions randomness, except in the discussion of Roguelikes, which are a subgenre of Dungeon Crawls. Thus, at least, the first Zelda game counts to some extent as a Dungeon Crawl. Thanks, Luc "Somethingorother" French 02:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Randomization is the criteria used by nearly every gaming magazine and online publication when they call an RPG a Dungeon Crawl. Whether it's every aspect of the game from the labyrinths down to the attributes of the drops as in Fatal Labyrinth or Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon, or having static dungeons while the inhabitants of the dungeon and loot changes as in Hellgate: London or Dungeon Siege, the defining factor is the unexpected randomization.  This is also tied in with the acceptable levels of survival in subsequent dungeons, as there is a steep rise of level between one set of dungeon environments and the next, meaning the player character must grind by running through a lesser dungeon multiple times, increasing stats and equipment to be prepared for the next dungeon.  Things are taken slow.  With Zelda, everything is preordained, nothing can be gained from revisiting a dungeon because everyone is dead and things are how you left them.  Once you complete a dungeon, you are already good enough and have everything you need to go to the next.  The "randomization" in the game is not very random as the game automatically gives you what you need if you don't have enough.  Running low on health?  Enemies start dropping hearts.  Don't have 255 rupees?  Enemies start dropping coins.  Dungeon crawlers just give, but they don't give you what you really need at that moment, and they're not limited to consummables.   I challenge anyone on the board to find any online gaming publication that refers to Zelda as a dungeon crawl.  It's an action adventure game, or an action RPG that coincidentally has dungeon environments, but just having a dungeon doesn't make a game a dungeon crawl.Neoyamaneko (talk) 04:25, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not certain if this is a flaw in the article as written, or a flaw in your thinking. Either way, the article mentions randomness only in connection to Roguelikes, which, again, are a specific variety of Dungeon Crawl. I'm just looking at the article as written. If you're going to remove Zelda, please, first rewrite the article to make clear why Zelda isn't a Dungeon Crawl. Thanks, Luc "Somethingorother" French 21:01, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Refer to the second paragraph of the article. It's there. Neoyamaneko (talk) 15:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Luc is correct. The definition of a dungeon crawl should be kept to its essence. The phrase was not absolutely defined at some point in time, and has come to mean various things to various people. Neoyamaneko, it may mean "random" to you, but to those of us who were actually there watching the original games being typed into to computer terminals, random is not an essential factor. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 03:08, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Monty Haul
Monty Haul redirects here. A Monty Haul campaign is one where they players obtain inflated amounts of treasure. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a Dungeon Crawl.--RLent (talk) 21:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Correctamundo! 24.148.0.83 (talk) 02:42, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

See Also section - too huge
I think the "see also" section is getting pretty huge. It looks like this article is in need of a big WP:OR trim, in general. 204.153.84.10 (talk) 19:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I made it shorter today after someone deleted it. Some of the titles were already mentioned in the main article. 99.104.190.237 (talk) 16:23, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

1st or 3rd person?
There is a sense that the term "dungeon crawler" (which I see more frequently than "dungeon crawl") is used to describe any game that relies on exploring dungeons as its chief gameplay. But others seem to use it specifically to mean 1st person dungeon crawling, a la Wizardry. Should there be a distinction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.104.190.237 (talk) 10:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Interesting quotes
From Matt Barton at Gamasutra: "Telengard is about as close to a pure "dungeon crawler" as you can get. There are no ultimate quests or missions; the focus is entirely on survival and gaining enough experience to improve your character." etc. etc.

Also: "[Bard's Tale] is also rather lacking in terms of narrative or story elements--it's a "dungeon crawler" with an emphasis on fighting random encounters with monsters, building up character stats and inventories, and mapping out dungeons." SharkD   Talk  07:19, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Three Hearts and Three Lions
The dungeon crawl in this books is confined to a short trip through a troll's hole. Come off it! --Jack Upland (talk) 11:35, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

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