Talk:Durham Bulls

Untitled
Don't know if this was prudent, but I took away the part about Clark Williams and his naps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.158.98.190 (talk • contribs)
 * Looks very prudent to me! Thanks! -Jcbarr 00:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The article suggests that the current Durham Bulls are the same team as the previous Carolina League team. I don't think this is accurate. The current team, as the article says later, is an expansion team. The Bulls featured in the movie "Bull Durham" reclocated and became the Myrtle Beach Pelicans. The Bulls did not upgrade. Michaelcarraher (talk) 20:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This gets into the slippery issue of how and whether to differentiate technically "different" minor league teams that have the same nickname and play in the same ballpark and maybe have the same ownership. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 23:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Durham Bulls Baseball Club usage
The Durham Bulls do market an alternative name Durham Bulls Baseball Club. I don't know if it's appropiate to use the name on the page. Durham Bulls Baseball Club, Inc. is now being used on the page as this is the operating entity that operates the Durham Bulls. Silvercoindinerman (talk) 01:54, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That type of corporate designation would mirror that of pretty much any professional baseball team. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:13, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Continuity
It seems to me overstating things that the Tobacconists started in 1902 are the same as the later ballclubs separated by years of non-function.Did any lingering entity persist and then resume operations during the gaps,or is this really just a history of all the unconnected minor league teams to play in Durham?--12.144.5.2 (talk) 18:53, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Per the Bulls' 2013 Media Guide (see pages 87 & 90) the team recognizes the Tobacconists as part of their franchise history. It seems like a stretch to me to consider it the same team. Sometimes, especially with such older teams, it is difficult to distinguish one franchise from another and Wikipedia often yields to "official" team histories. NatureBoyMD (talk) 21:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
 * From the article,it seems THIS incarnation dates only to 1980.(Does official baseball consider the various Baltimore Orioles incarnations one team?) (And not even 1980 if the above Myrtle Beach Pelicans connection is correct)--12.144.5.2 (talk) 22:09, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yea, it gets murky. This is why we typically go with the history as presented by the team itself. The 1997–98 Bulls/Pelicans move should be seen as a relocation of the Carolina League franchise, not a relocation of the Bulls—essentially the Class A franchise relocated and the Bulls continued at Triple-A. NatureBoyMD (talk) 02:52, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
 * As opposed to,"the Carolina League franchise moved and changed its name,while the International League gave a new franchise to Durham and that totally separate organization chose the name that the Carolina League franchise had used." So...look at Baltimore Oriole (disambiguation).In the 1890s there were Milwaukee Brewers and Baltimore Orioles.Are today's Orioles the old Brewers or the old Orioles?...and are today's Brewers the old Brewers?--12.144.5.2 (talk) 03:45, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I understand what you're saying. Minor League Baseball is generally treated differently here and by teams/leagues. Whereas MLB team articles reflect the ancestry of the franchise (Expos/Nationals; 2nd Senators/Twins; 3rd Senators/Rangers; Philadelphia A's/KC A's/Oakland A's), MiLB articles generally ignore team history across different cities. In some cases, MiLB team articles cover uninterrupted stretches, others (like this one) have some gaps of inactivity. NatureBoyMD (talk) 14:54, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
 * One could argue that the 1901 AL Orioles were more connected to the 1899 NL Orioles (with whom they shared a manager) than the 1903 Yankees who most consider the same franchise.But generally teams from different leagues in the same city aren't considered the same team.For fans the Browns moving in in the 1950s replaced the minor league Orioles who moved out...it's not supported by the respective teams' own articles,but according to the article on the minor league Orioles,the Yankees (first AL Orioles and tenuously descended from the Cincinnati Reds' 1890s Western League farm team) changed their AAA farm team (since changed repeatedly again) from one of the old minor league Orioles (Toledo) to the other (Syracuse) in 1967.(Anyhow,I'd look for continuities in ownership,stadium,coaching and player personnel,or corporate entity in tracing a team as the same rather than a namesake...that doesn't seem to have been done in Durham).--12.144.5.2 (talk) 19:46, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

2021 "Triple-A National Champions"
The “Triple-A National Championship” does not seem to be an official title recognized by Minor League Baseball (MiLB) in 2021. MiLB makes no mention of it in playoff procedures (here or here). They mention each league (Triple-A East and West) crowning a champion with the highest overall winning percentage and a Final Stretch champion (the best record over the last 10 games), but they say nothing about a champion of the Triple-A classification. This Tweet by the Tacoma Rainiers' director of media relations says Durham gave themselves the title and is not an official designation. This article by MiLB mentions the team winning the regular season league championship and the Final Stretch but says nothing about a Triple-A national championship. The only mentions of the title in 2021 I have seen are from Durham when they were closing in on having the best Triple-A record and after having secured it. Unless a reliable source can be provided that MiLB has recognized a national champion by means of having the best record in all of Triple-A baseball, there is no 2021 Triple-A National Champion and should not be included in this article. NatureBoyMD (talk) 14:16, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Here's another from 2022. An excerpt: This [the 2022 Triple-A championship] is the Bulls' third national championship in the past 12 iterations. They also posted the best winning percentage during the Triple-A Final Stretch in 2021 in lieu of a title game. NatureBoyMD (talk) 12:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Year the team adopted the name Durham Bulls varies slightly between sections
The introduction gives the year that the team started calling itself the Durham Bulls as 1913, while the second paragraph of the Early Years section says it was 1912. I propose changing the phrase in the article's introduction "it was reestablished as the Durham Bulls in 1913" to "it re-established as the Durham Bulls by 1913". Changing "in" to "by" seems sufficient to make this consistent with "In December 1912, the Durham Tobacconists re-formed as the Durham Bulls" in the Early Years section.

Unfortunately the relevant citation in the Early Years section, which cites the team's own website, seems to be missing any easy way to verify exactly when the team started using its current name. Can anyone find the year on the team's website? Seventh Level (talk) 18:28, 18 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I made a slightly different change to make it clear that they began playing as the Bulls in 1913. This article is on my to-do list for upgrading its history and referencing. As a side note, I recall a newspapers.com search turning up nothing about the "Durham Tobacconists" playing in 1902, but plenty about the "Durham Bulls" that season. NatureBoyMD (talk) 18:47, 18 October 2022 (UTC)