Talk:Durham Students' Union

Wording
"The union employs full-time trained counsellors to provide students with Welfare advice, and also helps fund semi-autonomous representation groups to help those whose gender, sexuality, race or disability causes them to experience discrimination. A further union welfare service is the provision of the DSU Nightbus, a mini-bus which runs every evening during term time to ensure students can get home safely regardless of their immediate financial state.

DSU also runs a number of commercial ventures, including a shop, a cafe, a bar and a night-club. These operations are intended to make a profit which can be used to subsidise welfare support, student societies and other student services by DSU. The University also gives a grant of money to help meet the cost of running student services and the union's accommodation."

Is the above not a bit too much like a prospectus? Suggest that none of it is really necessary Robdurbar 17:57, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Well my changes were reverted without anyone having the decency to reply to this; I don't want to enter a revert war and will leave it if you want the article as it was, though have put my version up for last time. I have just been trying to go through some of the University of Durham pages and tried to neutralise the tone as I feel a bit embarassed at some of the unencylopedic entries about our uni. This page (see quote above) reads, to me, too much like a prospectus. Robdurbar 16:50, 25 July 2005 (UTC)


 * You have a point about the general tone; I just don't think the replacement text is really an improvement. "The union is responsible for student welfare" is inaccurate - the university, JCRs and colleges also provide student welfare services, and if anyone could be said to have "responsibility" in this area it's the university, not DSU.  "organises representation groups for minorities suffering from discrimination" isn't entirely accurate; as the original edit says, these are essentially autonomous, meaning that the idea is that the group organises for itself, rather than others organising on their behalf.


 * Sorry I didn't reply here earlier; I left it because I essentially agreed with the general point that the article perhaps goes into too much detail, and the tone may not be quite right in places. The replacement wasn't much shorter, though, and significantly less accurate.  I'm not sure that 'prospectus' is too far from the tone we're looking for - mostly what the article seems to do is simply outline what DSU does.  Perhaps some things currently included aren't worth mentioning; but the way in which they're mentioned doesn't seem all that unencyclopedic. TSP 17:33, 25 July 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, agreed, didn't want to seem rude, was just a bit miffed at full on reversal! I agree I couldn't really come up with a much better way of putting it, which is why I came to talk page in the first place. Still a certain something sounds wrong that I can't put my finger on though Robdurbar 18:34, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Students' Union / Association sabs list deletion

 * I've started a discussion on Chriscf's Talk Page as this involve all the union's page. Please go there to provide your opinion if you're interested. -- KTC 16:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I will be removing the above discussion from my talk page. User talk pages are for personal communication.  They are not for conducting general content debates.  Feel free to start a discussion in the Wikipedia namespace, but this is not an appropriate discussion for user pages. Chris talk back 16:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Discussion was needed because of your unilateral deletion on multiple pages. So in a sense, your talk page does fit for purpose. Anyhow, it's now at Talk:Students Union -- KTC 03:44, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Counsellors or Advice Workers
As I understand it, DSU provides advice workers rather than counsellors (similar to the Citizens Advice Bureau). Counselling at Durham University is provided by the University Counselling Service. Do people agree? Paulleake 23:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Vane Tempest Room
Charles Vane-Tempest-Stewart, 7th Marquess of Londonderry states that the Vane Tempest Room is named after Charles Vane-Tempest-Stewart, who was a Chancellor of the University. I thought it was renamed in the 1980s/1990s after the closure of the Vane Tempest mine (last coal mine in Co Durham or some such). Does anyone have any information? Paulleake 00:31, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No, idea, I put it in the Vane-Tempest article out of assumption (which I guess is probably bad practice :0), but if you know different then I'd remove the assertion. Robdurbar 09:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Motto and Number of Members
These are all currently listed as 'unknown' in the infobox; if anyone can fill these in, it would be great! Robdurbar 11:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * DSU doesn't have a motto that I'm aware of - should it have one? Number of members will be the same as the number of students at the University, give or take a few dozen HLMs.  No-one has opted out for years.


 * Did this Infobox format come from another Union's page? If multiple Unions are using the same format, it would be worth making a template for it. TSP 14:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It was created as a response to the debate over whether to include sabbatical officers on these pages (See Talk:Students Union). At the moment I think only Ednibrugh, Glasgow and Cambridge student unions pages use it - and the template is here. However, I may have copied from the tempalte incorrectly; its not a feature I've ever used before. Robdurbar 15:39, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah! I see!  Yes, I've altered it so that it uses the template for its layout rather than duplicating the code. TSP 01:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Cool. And as for a motto - maybe thats something to bring up next term ;) Robdurbar 01:22, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * We sort of had one once; it was "Bringing The Durham Experience To Life". We quietly abandoned it when no-one was looking.  If you're looking for a defining statement of what DSU is, the thing usually used (for example, on the first page of the staff handbook) is Article I of the Constitution - "The Durham Students’ Union shall exist to promote the interests of students in the University of Durham." TSP 21:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I keep seeing "The colleges working together" used on DSU stuff these days. RPC


 * I'd forgotten about that one. The John's President and I came up with that in about 2001.  I don't think it has any particular official status - though I think it is featured on the new signs which have just been put up on the building, which is nice. TSP 02:01, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The 'motto' line is a hidden'able field. I've just hidden it. -- KTC 13:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Bailey/Peninsula
Anyone who has an interest in contributing to Durham related articles may like to look at the discussion going on at Talk:The Bailey Robdurbar 10:20, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

DUCK
Do we really need the rumour about the disbanding of RAG? I, for one, have heard another 'prank' given as the reason for this, and I believe neither. MrTrev 01:20, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Not sure about the DUCK abbreviation being correct - that's likely to be a backronymn. When I was involved in DSU (1990-94) DCUK was commonly shown as Durham University Charities weeK, and I'm reasonably certain that this was its original form. Any others with more info? Larkim (talk) 15:33, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Associations
The societies have been mentioned but why is there no mention of the DSU Associations? The LGBTa, etc... They are very significant representative bodies within DSU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bilionthlostsoul (talk • contribs)


 * What's the difference between a society and an association? --Robdurbar 23:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * They have different purposes in the Constitution. A society can be pretty much anything; Associations are for special interest groups (LGBT, Mature, Postgraduate, International, Students with Disabilities, presently, though there's scope to define others.). Societies are defined in F4 of the |Standing Orders, Associations in F2. The Associations and their behaviour are defined explicitly in Standing Orders - so for example Standing Orders say what the Postgrad Association is for quite clearly - and this goes hand in hand with more DSU-related power than a random society has. On the other hand, a Society is far less pre-defined. I do hope this makes some sense ... I know in my head what the difference is but am finding it remarkably difficult to explain! --JennyRad 23:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Dunelm House main staircase
I've added to the article a mention of the fact that the main staircase in Dunelm House runs in an entirely straight line from top to bottom. I've heard it suggested that this is the longest entirely straight staircase in the UK, or at least that it was at the time of construction. However this is a rumour and I've no way of verifying it (so I've not put it in) - can anyone help? cmch83
 * I've no source off-hand, but I do recall reading in Pevsner's Buildings of England (Co. Durham edition) very approving comments on the design, which was under construction at the time. I think there is a copy, with photographs, in the University library. As to whether it is genuinely the longest straight staircase, no doubt verifying that would be very difficult. I'm not aware of any other particular buildings that make similar claims, either. DWaterson 22:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * We've a copy of Pevsner at work - I'll try and remember to check it tomorrow and see if it says anything interesting. Shimgray | talk | 17:52, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * From the revised second edition (1985)...


 * Brutalist by tradition but not brutal to the landscape. A bulky building broken down into a series of concrete boxes stacked into the river bank, producing a terraced elevation. ... Steep stairs down the centre inside treated, according to the architects, like an interior streer with the same fair-faced board-marked concrete as the exterior and quarry tiles: gloomy because it goes so far back into the hillside.


 * Doesn't say anything about the length of the staircases, though... There's about half a page on it in total. He notes a few high points of modern architecture in the university as being "Spence's Dining Hall at St. Aidans's, the elegant layout of Van Mildert, the energy of Collingwood, and the riverside-feeling and some details of Dunelm House." Shimgray | talk | 16:44, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Poking around a bit, the Times archive has a story from April 22 1966 about "Durham University's £300,000 social amenities centre, Dunelm House, was opened unofficially today ... the building has a large hall, a cafeteria to seat 300, a coffee bar to seat 200, lounges and bars." There's a story in May 1967 about it winning the north-east regional award from RIBA, a couple of articles mentioning it in passing as examples of modern architecture, but nothing detailed. (there's also a job advert in 1968 for a House Manager - annual turnover is described as £60,000. Readers are invited to draw comparisons...) Shimgray | talk | 18:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

NUS disaffiliation
Well, yet again this has been dropped without even coming close to a vote due to the high profitability of NUSSL compared to other consortiums. Perhaps discussion of affiliation would be better in a "DSU and NUS" section than in the "Future" section?

Ove Arup
"...under the supervision of architect Sir Ove Arup, whose Kingsgate Bridge, adjacent, opened two years later..." I'm a bit confused. I'd always been led to believe that Arup's studio had a hand in the design, however the building's architects were most definitely Architects Co-Partnership, and, although Arup often collaborated with ACP, I'm unclear whether this was mainly as a consultant engineer (which was Arup's original specialism) or as a designer or what. If his role was more on the engineering side, it may truthfully be incorrect to describe him as the designer, and I think referring to "his studio" is wrong - if anything, it'd be more likely ACP would call him in as a consultant, rather than the other way round. I'm also confused by the timescales - AFAICT, the two buildings must have actually been completed almost simultaneously to fit in with the referenced dates. DWaterson 23:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Kingsgate Bridge car incident
I reverted this addition to the article:

"In the early '70s a Mini Car was found hanged one morning, from the Kingsgate Bridge. Nobody ever owned up to this, and the debate continues as to how it got there. No photos can be found."

on the grounds that almost every word is wrong:
 * 1) It was in the 1960s;
 * 2) It wasn't a mini;
 * 3) The culprits were identified (I think);
 * 4) The method by which it got there is well-known;
 * 5) There is a photo.

Nevertheless, is this incident notable enough to warrant a reference on the Kingsgate Bridge page, or is it just cruft really? DWaterson 22:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

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