Talk:Durian/Archive 2

weapon
Should include some info about the durian used as a weapon in some tribes.


 * Do people use it as a weapon? (although it does make a good weapon) The only thing that's remotely related is I remember in a Jackie Chan movie where Jackie threw a durian fruit to a bad guy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.75.181 (talk) 03:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Needs to be More Specific
I've tried Durian, and at first, the taste was strong; eventually, I grew to like it! I'm confused as to why so many complain about it's smell. Maybe it's because I'm immune to it (like the person who stated above)? However, I do notice that it stinks terribly with it's shell on; and not so terribly once you remove the shell (although there is still a trace of the scent). It's really not that bad of a smell; maybe I am immune in a way that I only smell some? Most people don't really speak of the taste of the fruit; I mean, once the shell is off, you really shouldn't complain or be afraid anymore, since most of the smell is gone! Give it a chance; the smell is gone for crying out loud (which wasn't THAT bad to begin with)! Heck, I'd say the taste turned me off more than the scent in the beginning.

To do list
I see some previous commenters are interested in getting this article to FAC status. For that, there are some works to be done:


 * 1) The lead section is way too long. It needs to be concise as per WP:LEAD. (This has been fixed, more or less. --BorgQueen 11:02, 25 February 2006 (UTC))
 * 2) No references yet. References are mandatory for even good article status. Footnotes would better be added along.
 * 3) Its ecological relationship with animals appears to be important and needs to be mentioned.
 * 4) I have seen quite a few references to this fruit in Southeast Asian films / TV series and those info could be organized under "In popular culture" section.
 * 5) It would be desirable to have some more precise info on its chemical property. If "not all of which have been identified", then we could list the identified ones, at least.
 * 6) Its more detailed culinary uses. We can't include recipes here, but we can do in Wikicookbook and make a link here to the cookbook.
 * 7) History section. For starters, what is the earliest known reference on this fruit/plant? Addenum: first reference in English is Parke (1588) Mendoza's History of China (OED), but there's likely to be considerably older refs in Chinese etc literature - MPF 13:11, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 8) There has to be consistency whether it is written in British spelling or American spelling. It shouldn't be a mixture of two. Addenum: as a southeast Asian genus, it should be written in Commonwealth English - MPF 10:36, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 9) Excessive internal links are rather distracting than helpful.

Care to join the work team? :-) --BorgQueen 19:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd say sourcing the existing information is probably priority #1. Almost every paragraph of this article needs at least one or two footnotes pointing to good sources for the information; that's doubly hard to track down right now, since the "Wikipedia effect" is strong here, and a lot of web search results are mirrors of the page. Half the stuff in here right now is probably on the say-so of some guy's goofy durian website. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes  (talk) 04:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Also:
 * 1) Full species list for the genus (requires someone with library access to e.g. Flora Malesiana)
 * 2) Better description of the genus, including the individual ranges of and distinctions between different species (ditto)
 * 3) Which other species have edible fruit
 * 4) (Possibly) a split-out of the botanical details to a separate page Durio (currently a redirect), with this page then dealing only with the fruit and its uses
 * Looking at the Morton ref, the notes there suggest that this would be a good idea; I'll do so tomorrow - MPF 23:08, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Additional note: The link "Southeast Asia" refers to a politically defined region, not a biogeographical one, so should not be used for describing the distribution of the plant, which need not coincide with the political region - MPF 11:45, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The new ref I just added (Brown) seems to have a very complete species listing, past and present, in chapter 2. In fact, the book seems to contain an overwhelming amount of info about Durio.
 * Excellent find - just the sort of thing I was hoping for, but was assuming could only be found by visiting a large library! - MPF 01:30, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The "Selection" and "Opening" sections are the major unreferenced areas at this point. I'm also concerned that they might contain a good amount of original research; it's hard to tell. For what its worth, they were both added in this February 18, 2004 edit by an Anon (the IP's first Wikipedia edit, in fact). &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

OR?
I've taken this out: "Anecdotal evidence suggests that washing hands with water poured from the shell originally encasing the flesh and seeds help to vanquish the lingering smell of durian from one's hands." - This needs a source for verification. --BorgQueen 14:41, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

There is no question that it is a very popular belief among Malaysians that washing your hands with water that has touched the shell of a Durian keeps the smell from your hand. It should be placed back into the article. Whether this is true or not it is a very widely believed. If you absolutely must have a source for it I will look for one. Ryan Albrey (talk) 10:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

World trade
This page looks like it has some decent trade figures. Anybody found anything better? &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 01:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Arg, maybe not so good once I get down to trying to write something based on it. "Malaysia is the largest exporter of fresh durian, with 34,904 MTs exported in 2001... In 2001, Thailand exported 116,674 MTs of fresh durian..." Great. Malaysia's the largest exporter but Thailand exported more than three times as much.... sigh. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, found a different source. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Fermented durian
I have taken this out: "What is agreed however, is that when the flesh starts to ferment and becomes alcoholic, the fruit should not be eaten." Because: Tempoyak refers to fermented durian, usually made from lower quality durian that is unsuitable for direct consumption.[13] Tempoyak can be eaten either cooked or uncooked, is normally eaten with rice, and can also be used for making curry. Clarification will be appreciated. --BorgQueen 21:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The material you took out sounds like something somebody wrote based on personal experience and/or beliefs. Good to see it gone. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Kradum Thong
The code number for Kradum Thong remains mystery. Please do inform us if anyone happens to know. --BorgQueen 17:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Same problem with Kop. Some sources state D19 while some others refer to D99. The latter ones seem more reliable, so I included D99. There must be an official list - where on earth is it? --AchromatReader 01:02, 08 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikiquote
The literary quotes in "In pupular culture" section have been moved to wikiquotes. I hope there won't be any misunderstanding. --BorgQueen 17:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Good call. Those were out-of-control. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm...
It seems I've reached my limit. I don't see any further improvement I could do, for now. Any suggestions or help will be appreciated... --BorgQueen 07:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Try googling for "durian caloric content". We could get some nutritional data like that in there, plus you'll find some hysteria about people dying from eating too much that would fit well in the Dangers section. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The lead picture
The fruit in the lead image doesn't look like Durio zibethinus, judging from its reddish colour. It may be Durio graveolens, but there's no way to be sure about it. I've checked its source page but the page seems to have been removed. Please let me know if anyone surely knows its species. --BorgQueen 21:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It must of been from this page in google's cache, which at least claims it's zibethinus. Of course, it's a lousy, blurry photo, anyway, so if someone wanted to create a replacement, that would be good. Another picture conspicuously missing is an image of a tree. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

IPA
Ok I've been trying to add IPA for durian but I just can't make head and tail out of it. If anyone familiar with IPA is willing to help, much appreciated. --BorgQueen 23:51, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I asked User:IBook of the Revolution; that's his thing, sometimes. I'll bug him in person about it too. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. You deserve another serving of Turkish Delight :-) --BorgQueen 00:01, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Inedible species
I've taken out the list of inedible species of Durian. Since this article mainly concerns with edible fruit of Durio, it appears this list is rather out of place. --BorgQueen 09:10, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

===Inedible species of Durian===
 * Durio acutifolius (Mast.) Kosterm.: mainly distributed in Borneo (Kalimantan, Sabah).
 * Durio affinis Becc.: mainly distributed in Borneo (West Kalimantan, Sabah)
 * Durio beccarianus Kosterm. & Soegeng.: mainly distributed in West Kalimantan
 * Durio bukitrayaensis Kosterm.
 * Durio burmanicus Soegeng.
 * Durio carinatus Mast.: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia, Borneo
 * Durio crassipes Kosterm.: mainly distributed in Sabah
 * Durio excelsus (Korth.) Bakh.: mainly distributed in Kalimantan
 * Durio griffithii (Mast.) Bakh.: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia, Sumatra, Borneo
 * Durio kinabaluensis Kosterm & Soegeng: mainly distributed in Sabah
 * Durio lanceolatus Mast.: mainly distributed in Borneo
 * Durio lissocarpus Mast.: mainly distributed in Borneo
 * Durio macrolepis Kosterm.: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia
 * Durio macrophyllus Ridley: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia
 * Durio malaccensis Planch.: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia, Sumatra
 * Durio mansoni (Gamble) Bakh.: mainly distributed in Myanmar
 * Durio oblongus Mast.: mainly distributed in Sarawak
 * Durio pinangianus Ridley: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia (Perak, Penang)
 * Durio purpureus Kosterm. & Soegeng.: mainly distributed in West Kalimantan
 * Durio singaporensis Ridley: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia
 * Durio wyatt-Smithii Kosterm.: mainly distributed in Peninsular Malaysia (Trengganu)

Source:


 * Okay I just added this list to the article anyway, but I am wondering if the term durian applies to *any* fruit of the Durio trees, whether edible or inedible, or to only edible ones. --BorgQueen 20:17, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Popular culture section
I've trimmed down the section... I hope my removal wouldn't offend anyone. I think entries should be restricted to those that can contribute to the article topic, by helping readers understand how durian is perceived and influnce people's lives. Trivial details like Jacky Chan's using durian as a weapon wouldn't help much. Since I am partly responsible for the abundance of non-notable inclusions, I've removed a couple of my own additions in the literature subsection as well. --BorgQueen 12:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay I've done a major rewriting for the section - I think the current format is better than the long unconnected list we had. --BorgQueen 17:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Bold texts
I wonder — am I the only one thinking the bold texts in the species section are annoying? They are common names of various durian species, but perhaps quote marks will be more appropriate than having them as bold. Any insight will be appreciated. Yes, from you, Bunch... --BorgQueen 23:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Who, me? After staring at it a long time, I'd say undecorated text would be best -- that's what we do for the common names in the "Cultivars" section, and it reads all right. Speaking of, shouldn't the cultivars section have moved along with the species section? Having this giant list lead off the article might be considered a structural problem in general, though... &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Images
Here are some you might like to use: If you upload any, don't forget to add them to Durio zibethinus :) --pfctdayelise (translate?) 14:52, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * http://flickr.com/photos/97551727@N00/82465795/ immature plant on tree?
 * http://flickr.com/photos/pump937/82986873/ very small plant in ground? not even sure if this is a durian, so I leave it for an expert to ID
 * http://flickr.com/photos/pump937/82986870/ from the same photo set, a small plant
 * I believe what we have there is a very nice picture (with a usable license)... of a jackfruit. Compare the first image with Image:Jackfruit1.JPG. &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * D'oh! Oh well, I tried! pfctdayelise (translate?) 17:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The second and third pics certainly look like durian plants. Khim1 06:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Nutrition
We don't seem to have anything on the nutritional content of the durian. In my experience it's hugely fattening, but we'd need a slightly more credible source. HenryFlower 11:42, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should look for a public domain resource. There are many free resources about articles such as Durian. Just try making a search in google or any other search engine, cheers  Minun   (talk) 12:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * here is a resource I trust. It would be alright to copy, because it can't be copyrighted as the imformation applies to all Durians, cheers again  Minun   (talk) 12:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There, thats the information added :), I hope my editing helps  Minun   (talk) 12:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I've cleaned up the formatting a little, and specified the source and serving. HenryFlower 12:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, im trying to make the article as good as possible since its the current focused article at WikiProject Featured articles. Cheers again  Minun   (talk) 12:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I've edited it a little bit to use a reference instead of an external link, hope that helps. :)  Minun   (talk) 14:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Focused article
This article is now one of the focused articles of WikiProject Featured articles, an attempt to promote articles to featured status. Please help improve this article, so its good enough to reach featured status, and discuss any problems you need help with on this page. If you would like to join the project, you can do that by adding your name to the participants list.  Minun  (talk) 12:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

SMS Fruit?
Are durians the name of those fruits in Super Mario Sunshine that Mario could kick like a soccer ball? They look very simillar. dogman15 00:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

yes youre right

mythological origin
A long, long time ago, I read a book of myths that explained the origin of the durian fruit like this:


 * Once there was a kind but ugly princess who was well loved by her people. She died after an illness, and was mourned by everyone. Sometime after her death, a tree grew over her grave, filled with spiky, stinky fruit that made everybody stay away in disgust.


 * Later on, a famine struck the land. In desperation, one person braved the smell of the fruit, tried it, and found that it was nourishing. In this way, the princess was able to take care of her people even after her death.

Since I had read this book so long ago, I no longer remember the title or even the country involved. If I had to guess, I would guess Malaysia or the Philippines. I don't want to insert it into the main article without some sort of confirmation of my memory.

Has anybody heard of a tale along these lines?--Tachikom a 20:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm a Malaysian, and I've never heard of it. Borisblue 05:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Capital Latin binomial in image caption
Regarding, if the text in italics is the name of the colour plate, this should be made clear. Otherwise, I think standard formatting should be used. - User:Samsara (talk • contribs) 15:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)